Thanks again for your valuable input, Dean.
Yep, it's easy to get wrapped up tight in matters such as this: Just ask
folks around me at this end. In any event, life isn't safe; and boys
play rough sometimes.
And I truly thank God for that ;o)
Prosit!
--- Previous Message in This Thread ---
Subject: Re:[LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures -
Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
From: Dean Stadem <[log in to unmask]>
To: '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)' <[log in to unmask]>, 'Marcus
L. Thompson' <[log in to unmask]>, 'James, Chris' <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:39:37 PM
> It is a great community. The Technet and Leadfree forums are some of the
> most amazing collections of minds that we will ever see, much more so
> than any of us fully appreciates sometimes. The ability to throw stuff
> out there with little inhibition is what makes the ideas, thoughts, and
> opinions flow.
>
> I realized last week that sometimes I get a little opinionated (OK, a
> lot) on the RoHS and lead-in-solder subjects, and without realizing it I
> was overly critical. I certainly do not want that to happen; I value the
> differing opinions, especially those of people like Chris James. Chris,
> I owe you an apology. You had some really good points. I just don't
> agree with how these things came about, and I cannot accept that they
> are here to stay. But your thoughts and opinions certainly did make me
> re-evaluate and re-focus on the subject, and I wanted you to know that.
>
> R. Dean Stadem
> Consulting Engineer
> Analog Technologies Corp./Lumagine, Inc.
> 11441 Rupp Drive
> Burnsville, MN 55431
> (952)894-9228
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marcus L. Thompson
> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:04 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures
> - Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>
> "With tin whiskers, absence of evidence is seldom evidence of absence,
> the remaining whiskers are usually evident."
>
> Fair enough. And, indeed, there is potentially more evidence of this
> type of failure in spaceborne equipment where substantial arcing can
> occur.
>
> (I think Bob did a good job of encapsulating the rest in his latest
> post.)
>
> What a great community --
>
>
>
> --- Previous Message in This Thread ---
> Subject: Re:[LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures -
>
> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
> From: Stadem, Richard D. <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Date: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 12:18:05 PM
>
>> That is not completely true.
>> While the solitary whisker or whiskers on an electronic device that
>> caused the short leading to overvoltage or non-conforming signal
>> conditions may burn itself away in our atmosphere, several more
> shorter
>> non-conducting whiskers are usually left behind. With tin whiskers,
>> absence of evidence is seldom evidence of absence, the remaining
>> whiskers are usually evident.
>> In space, a tin whisker acts the same as a filament in a light bulb,
> due
>> to the vacuum (lack of oxygen). In that situation a short is usually
>> permanently fused between the adjacent non-common conductors, and
> while
>> it may break off during re-entry, enough evidence usually, but not
>> always, is left behind to make a determination as to what happened.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marcus L.
> Thompson
>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 2:07 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
> failures
>> - Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>
>> "...tin whiskers are a convenient thing liabilitywise for
> manufacturers
>> in any violent catastrophe involving same: They can simply break off
> and
>> fall away from the scene of the crime, all without a trace."
>>
>> Is this at all true?
>>
>> If so, who's to say what actually happened? Could human nature
> possibly
>> factor in to the statements and proclamations of a large industrial
>> organization when confronted with an accusatory public eye?
>>
>> Tin whiskers are yet another failure vector for these systems; one
> which
>> is increasingly likely to meaningfully assert itself in devices
>> manufactured using lead-free technologies with the passage of time.
>>
>> So, perhaps one could say it's all a matter of time...
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Previous Message in This Thread ---
>> Subject: Re:[LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced failures
> -
>> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>> From: John Burke <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 8:57:21 AM
>>
>>> They also stated publicly a few months ago that the problem was floor
>>> mats......8-)
>>>
>>>
>>> John Burke
>>> (408) 515 4992
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of TIMOTHY MCGRADY
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 7:42 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
>> failures -
>>> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>>
>>> Toyota stated publicly today that the cause was not electronic in
>> nature.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete Houwen
>>> Sent: Tuesday, February 02, 2010 9:24 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [LF] Perfect opportunity for tin whiskers induced
>> failures -
>>> Toyota did not install brake override systems despite complaints
>>>
>>> the electronic controlled throttle also makes traction control far
>> easier to
>>> implement. Since loss of traction is far more common than stuck
>> throttles,
>>> they saved money and increased safety.
>>>
>>> Of course, including a "brake wins" algorithm would have saved lives.
>> And
>>> amortized over millions of cars, software is almost free.
>>>
>>> I don't know if Toyota has nailed the problem with the friction
>> solution.
>>> But it
>>> has been vetted by the NHTSA, and they seem to agree. I don't doubt
>> there
>>> is also an electronic failure problem - electronics fail. But what I
>> do
>>> know is there is no indication so far of a tin whisker problem. It
>> concerns
>>> me that
>>>
>>> blaming any electronic failure on tin whiskers without any scientific
>>> evidence is really no more valid than banning lead in solder with no
>>> scientific evidence.
>>> There's enough data, crying wolf won't get RoHS repealed. That's
> more
>>> likely to just make it harder to stop the next legislative mistake.
>>>
>>>
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