Marcus,
Until and unless credible scientists and engineers with real working
expertise and knowledge of how industry really works get involved in the
business of working with governments on development of policies and
regulations we will continue to get misguided policies and regulations
driven by agendas that are not exactly self-evident. I agree, there is the
opportunity to set things a little closer to right here in the US (and
elsewhere for that matter), particularly with TSCA reform. Stay tuned - that
ball will start to move. We must make sure it's not "damage" that is caused
by it.
Mike
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 10:10:17 -0800, Marcus L. Thompson <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
>You know, since I started this thing, I thought that I'd throw in a
>couple of bones on the way it's come about.
>
>RoHS and the like are simply a political ploy to win favor from an
>outrageously ignorant and intellectually flaccid populace which has been
>weaned on mass-media stunts like Al Gore (Climategate, anyone?). Simply
>put, it is also a convenient profit-generating device for an industry
>which has lost its soul: Hence the lack of organized, proactive response
>from the industry as a whole.
>
>The people get the government(s) and, therefore, the laws they deserve.
> Take basic morals and common sense out of the equation, and you wind
>up with a population which is infinitely malleable in the hands of the
>leadership they elect; leadership which is generally one step beneath
>them ethically, and one move beyond them intellectually.
>
>Yes, we all have to continue on industrially; and, certainly, it is
>quite late in this affair for those in the EU who would seek to
>reestablish common sense here. But I believe that there still is much
>that can be done to limit the damage caused, at least in the US.
>However, there must be a clear will and organization on the part of
>those parties who have something to gain. Identify and focus on this,
>and the tide could still be turned.
>
>I believe that's the best of what we're all about here at LEADFREE.
>
>Just my 2 cents...
>
>
>
>--- Previous Message in This Thread ---
>Subject: Re:[LF] Fodder for Discussion?
>From: John Burke <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Date: Thursday, January 21, 2010 9:11:43 AM
>
>> You mean like the players in the lead free movement?
>>
>>
>> John Burke
>> (408) 515 4992
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Phil Nutting
>> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 5:51 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] Fodder for Discussion?
>>
>> Wish I had invested in the tin market way back when...
>>
>> Phil
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
>> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 8:36 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] Fodder for Discussion?
>>
>> One thing is a fact, just ten years ago tin was around $5,000 a tonne, then
>> started a meteoric climb around 2005 and peaked to almost $26,000 just
>> before the global recession.
>>
>> It then dropped to around $11,000 a tonne at the beginning of the recession
>> but has started its climb once again. It's now at around $18,000 a tonne.
>>
>> Somebody is making some real money from lead-free...
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of James, Chris
>> Sent: Thursday, January 21, 2010 6:10 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] Fodder for Discussion?
>>
>> I'm not going to argue the pro's and con's but I don't think you can call
>> lead free solder sub standard any more than you can call lead free petrol
>> substandard.
>>
>> If you use/apply either "incorrectly" you will end up with a problem.
>> IMO if the Xbox had been designed correctly and assembled correctly then the
>> problems would not have arisen. Many companies are successfully
>> manufacturing a wide range of technologies using lead free solder.
>>
>> Who is to say that even if the Xbox used sn/pb solder it still would not
>> have suffered from a thermal management issue. The product gets used in a
>> wide range of ambient temperatures, compounded by varying enclosures and
>> levels of cleanliness, so thermal management needs the utmost consideration.
>>
>> Leadfree is here, the global markets requiring it outstrip those that still
>> don't but the momentum is still gathering, so anyone still with a small
>> minded jaundiced opinion on it needs to step back and take a reality check
>> and move on.
>>
>> Chris
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Marcus L. Thompson
>> Sent: 20 January 2010 17:39
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [LF] Fodder for Discussion?
>>
>> Points well made, Nigel, particularly in consideration of the apparent
>> intellectual capacity of ranking Microsoft personnel: I have no doubt that
>> the selected Chinese manufacturing entity (my assumption, as I've never even
>> seen one of the units myself) was "carefully" chosen to fulfill the "target
>> objectives" set forth by corporate management.
>>
>> The funniest thing about this particular case (again, I might be wrong
>> here) is the fact that lead-free was chosen to produce the device well
>> before EU import requirements were put into effect. So, one could assume
>> that a hamstrung and crunched design department probably missed the
>> thermomechanical mark for the application; and created a product which would
>> have performed satisfactorily if it had not been constructed
>>
>> with what amounts to substandard solder...
>>
>> Case closed?
>>
>>
>>
>> --- Previous Message in This Thread ---
>> Subject: Re:[LF] Fodder for Discussion?
>> From: Nigel Burtt <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Date: Wednesday, January 20, 2010 2:20:55 AM
>>
>>> I was going to say much the same thing as Jean-Paul (only less
>> eloquently)
>>> having read the first few posts There are two obvious possible causes
>> here:
>>> (1) the use of lead-free solder
>>> (2) poor design for reliability, failing to account for
>> thermo-mechanical aspects
>>> Given this is a first mass-produced product for Microsoft (a computer
>> software
>>> company with no track-record in similar hardware on the world market)
>> I know
>>> which one I would be more inclined to point the finger at. The other
>> is
>>> probably a contributing factor, at least in as far as a full and
>> proper
>>> understanding of its performance and the manufacturing process
>> controls
>>> necessary to guarantee the required level of performance for the
>> design.
>>> Nigel Burtt
>>> Enjaybee Associates
>>> www.nigelburtt.co.uk
>>>
>>>
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