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Subject:
From:
"Glidden, Kevin" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Glidden, Kevin
Date:
Mon, 9 Nov 2009 13:15:02 -0500
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text/plain (588 lines)
I certainly hope those brain voids are not related to reliability either.......



-----Original Message-----
From: Inge [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 12:30 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC - [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

A researcher specialized on brain associations would love to investigate how
a discussion about solder voids can end with woolf pee and moose protection
advice. There are apparently voids in the brain and are just waiting for
being filled with something. Seemingly, many of us have very large voids.
/Inge


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Hanna" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 6:13 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC - [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components


I know moose like being -in- water (i even watched a deer swim across my
lake last year which surprised me a little -- but I generally see more moose
knee-deep in water than on dry land) but I'm not sure they like being
sprayed with it unexpectedly......proof of concept would be to turn a garden
hose on one and see...from a safe distance...i had a dog once who used to
delight in destroying garden sprinklers...his favourite game when they were
turned on...moose milage may vary...


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 11:57 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC - [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

Unfortunately they are like Newfoundland dogs, which means they love water.
Believe it or not, a moose can not only swim many miles, he can also be
under water and eat sea grass, don't know what it's named.
/Inge


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Hanna" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 5:39 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC - [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components


There are motion sensitive water spayers -- not sure if it would work on
moose...

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 11:25 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC - [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

Not a bad idea, but I don't want to find wifey dancing on the lawn with a
new hair-do. Somebody suggested the retractable clotheslines, I'm gonna try
and find some of those.

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
Sent: Monday, November 09, 2009 9:30 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC - [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

Should leave a bare cable with low voltage applied.  Little sparkle will
goes a long way?  May be?
--------------------------
Sent using BlackBerry


----- Original Message -----
From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Mon Nov 09 09:40:23 2009
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC - [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

Hi, Inge
The moose can indeed be a problem, the deer less so. I have a problem moose
at my cabin. He likes to come around and rub his antlers on the clotheslines
outside. He snaps them off, and I then need to replace them. So I replaced
them with 1/8" solid metal cable, came back and found those snapped off
also. I'm a little angry now, went to town and got 3/8" stranded cable. Wife
woke me up because we heard a lot of thrashing and banging around about 6
a.m. one Saturday morning. We jumped up and looked outside just in time to
see Bullwinkle walking into the woods, dragging both T-poles, cables and all
behind him. Gave up on that, and went back to rope.

I washed out an empty paint can to use for collecting rain water under the
downspout for our little garden up there, which we keep fenced in to keep
the deer out. We even have chicken wire over the top. One afternoon we heard
a loud bang! on the side of the house. Looking out the window, we saw a
small buck running around in our yard with the paint can over its head.
Apparently it liked the fresh water in the can, but because his antlers were
just little nubs they snapped themselves inside the paint can and the little
buck could not get its head out of the can. He was running around in the
yard and violently shaking his head in an attempt to get the can off, and in
the process was running into trees, the shed, the house, etc. I ran outside
and tried to hold onto it while my wife tried to pull the can off, but we
could not hang on long enough to pull it off. Then the d%$m deer ran into
the lake and started swimming. So I jumped into the boat while my wife
called the DNR and explained what was going on. I was able to catch up to
the deer and hold its head above the water until the DNR came, put their
boat into the water, and caught up. Between the three of us we were able to
pry the can off of its head, pull the exhausted buck into the DNR boat, and
bring it back to shore. It just laid there for about 10 minutes, then got up
and ran away. Neighbor guy took pictures of the whole thing, and it made
front page of the Ely Echo.
Never a dull moment up there. Never.


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 3:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC - [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

Hi Dave,
here we use leadfree to, caliber 2 tons. Our cars. Hit  a deer the other
day, and my neighbour one deer yesterday. And today two moose calves passed
our parking place.  Mother moose was shot, becase she had just three legs.
Traffic incident. I've deers in my garden every night. Not happy with them,
eat our flowers, and the moose massacres our fruit trees. Well,shouldn't
complain, many kilos of meat from both in the freezer.
/Inge

----- Original Message -----
From: "David D. Hillman" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC - [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components


Hi Bev - yea, I know but its Saturday, the leadfree ballistics
investigation on North American waterfowl was excellent today and I
happened to log into TechNet since the football games were slow.

Dave



"Bev Christian" <[log in to unmask]>
11/07/2009 02:54 PM

To
<[log in to unmask]>, <[log in to unmask]>
cc

Subject
Re: [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components






Dave,
I was playing devil's advocate. That is what we use too for non-thermal
ones. I am also an active member of the BTC committee.
Bev
RIM

----- Original Message -----
From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sat Nov 07 15:33:44 2009
Subject: Re: [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

Hi Bev - the void criteria for a QFN/LGA ground/thermal pad that we use is

50% maximum voiding unless the component has specific thermal or grounding

requirements impacted by voiding phenomena. The topic is also being
discussed in the IPC BCT specification.

Dave Hillman
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]




Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
11/07/2009 10:46 AM
Please respond to
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>


To
[log in to unmask]
cc

Subject
Re: [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components






Inge,
You get to play with the weirdest stuff!  I was referring to "normal"
cases.

Something more down to earth though is voiding in LGA/QFN central thermal
pads. What do people allow for that?
Bev
RIM

----- Original Message -----
From: Inge <[log in to unmask]>
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Bev Christian
Sent: Sat Nov 07 11:41:15 2009
Subject: Re: [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

There is an exception, namely when you have to do with high power chips.
We
mounted HexFets that disspated 200 Watts, and those with too much voids
simply burnt.

By the way, I got no answer from Kevin about how to planarize heat via
solder fills. Anyone?

/Inge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bev Christian" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, November 07, 2009 5:10 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components


Correct. Or the voids are open to the surface, as Joyce K pointed out to
me.
Bev

----- Original Message -----
From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sat Nov 07 11:02:58 2009
Subject: Re: [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

Unless there is a significant "segregation" of rather small voids at one
of
the interfaces :-)

Vladimir
SENTEC
11 Canadian Road, Unit 7.
Scarborough, ON M1R 5G1
Tel: (416) 899-1882
Fax: (905) 882-8812
www.sentec.ca


-----Original Message-----
From: Bev Christian <[log in to unmask]>
Date:         Sat, 7 Nov 2009 10:59:31
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

Alejandro,
No there is not.

In the 10 years I was at Nortel we could never see any significant
difference between shear strength of solder joints with low voiding and
those that looked like Swiss cheese (up to 50% voiding). I am sure that
Werner will come back and rightly say that shear strength does not
necessarily equate to solder joint reliability. But I can say we never saw


chip cap problems that were traceable to the joint voids.
Bev

----- Original Message -----
From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sat Nov 07 10:40:25 2009
Subject: [TN] Solder Voids in Chip Components

Hello,

Does anybody know if there is an IPC specification that describes the
amount
of solder voids allowed in a chip component solder joint?  The IPC-A-610
Rev
D is specific describing the % of voids allowed for BGA's solder joints
(<25%) only but not for any other type of components.

Saludos Cordiales / Best Regards
Alejandro A. Domínguez
Robert Bosch Corporation



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