As I understand it:
The supplier has to demonstrate they can ship good material.
The supplier claims that they can't carry out a non destructive test on
the material.
Test coupons are not practical.
In the industry I work in we'd demand something like the following:
The supplier must therefore carry out a qualification of what I would
refer to as a DOE where they paint real parts at the limits of the
process windows e.g. if you cure the plating at 90 +/-10 degrees then
you cure some at 80 and some at 100, if the catalyst/paint ration is
1:10 +/-10% then you paint some parts at 1:9 ratio and some at 1:11 etc,
etc. If you give this a minutes thought you'll see that you'll need a
piece of software to help you come up with the minimum number of process
permutations required to cover every possible combination of process
extremes.
Once they've done that they'll still have to carry out a test on a real
part or batch of parts every time a new batch of plating material is used.
Provided you have the leverage of taking your business elsewhere I'm
guessing that the vendor will give your demand a moment's thought and
then come up with a way of non destructively testing the real parts.
Regards,
Carroll, Thomas A wrote:
> Mike,
>
> It is the standard 3M #250 tape and I agree any residue could be cleaned after testing.
>
> Thanks,
> Tom Carroll, CQA, CIT
> Supplier Quality Engineer
> Boeing Integrated Defense Systems - East Region Supplier Quality
> Home Office Phone/FAX: 845-753-5932
> Temp Office Phone at Alabama Aircraft Indus Inc (205) 510-4783
> Temp Office FAX at AAII (205) 592-0295
> Boeing Cell: 215-692-2463
> email: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>> NOTE: This communication may contain privileged or other confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information. Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this e-mail in error, and delete the copy you received. Thank you.
>> EXPORT COMPLIANCE STATEMENT:
>> "The information contained herein is or may be controlled by the International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), 22 CFR 120-130, and may not be exported, or disclosed to a foreign person, whether in the United States or abroad, without prior U.S. Government written approval"
>>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mike Sewell [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 8:04 AM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Carroll, Thomas A
> Subject: RE: [TN] Adhesion Testing of Brush Plating
>
> If there is a residue left, can't they clean it? Sounds like they are trying to avoid an extra step (or two). What adhesive is on the tape they would use?
>
> FWIW - The intended use of MIL-STD-865D is "...used during repair process and acquisition of spares for the landing gear of all military aircraft. It is a process and procedure unique to the Air Force and is used primarily by the Air Force at Hill Air Force Base."
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carroll, Thomas A
> Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 6:56 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Adhesion Testing of Brush Plating
>
> Joyce,
>
> The adhesion test should confirm that the brush plate process was performed correctly.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Carroll, CQA, CIT
> Supplier Quality Engineer
> Boeing Integrated Defense Systems - East Region Supplier Quality Home Office Phone/FAX: 845-753-5932 Temp Office Phone at Alabama Aircraft Indus Inc (205) 510-4783 Temp Office FAX at AAII (205) 592-0295 Boeing Cell: 215-692-2463
> email: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>> NOTE: This communication may contain privileged or other
>>
> confidential information. If you are not the intended recipient, or believe you have received this communication in error, please do not print, copy, retransmit, disseminate, or otherwise use the information.
> Also, please indicate to the sender that you have received this e-mail in error, and delete the copy you received. Thank you.
>
>> EXPORT COMPLIANCE STATEMENT:
>> "The information contained herein is or may be controlled by the
>>
> International Traffic in Arms Regulations (ITAR), 22 CFR 120-130, and may not be exported, or disclosed to a foreign person, whether in the United States or abroad, without prior U.S. Government written approval"
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joyce Koo [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:11 PM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Carroll, Thomas A
> Subject: RE: [TN] Adhesion Testing of Brush Plating
>
> You mean no qual can be done? If it is the case, what is good for adhesion test if each of them are unique.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carroll, Thomas A
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:30 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Adhesion Testing of Brush Plating
>
> Joyce,
>
> Each area being Brush Plated is a unique area and a coupon to mirror the surface being plated is not practical.
>
> Regards,
> Tom Carroll, CQA, CIT
> Supplier Quality Engineer
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Joyce Koo [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 4:22 PM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Carroll, Thomas A
> Subject: RE: [TN] Adhesion Testing of Brush Plating
>
> Is it suppose to be done on coupon or at qualification stage? Why you need to do every batch? If you do, why not have a witness coupon designed along your production part?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carroll, Thomas A
> Sent: Wednesday, September 23, 2009 5:20 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN] Adhesion Testing of Brush Plating
>
> Fellow Techies,
>
> MIL-STD-865D, Selective, Brush Plating, Electro-Deposition calls for Adhesion Testing per paragraph 5.5.6e 1 (tape test) or 2 (shot peen).
> But I have a supplier telling me that they do not perform the adhesion test on production application because it would leave a residue.
>
> My question is this:
>
> Do any of you have experience with Selective Brush Plating and if yes, would you recommend allowing the adhesion test to be waived on production hardware?
>
> Thanks in advance for your response,
> Tom Carroll, CQA, CIT
> Supplier Quality Engineer
> Boeing Integrated Defense Systems - East Region Supplier Quality
>
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--
Eric Christison Msc
Mechanical Engineer
Consumer & Micro group
Imaging Division
STMicroelectronics (R&D) Ltd
33 Pinkhill
Edinburgh EH12 7BF
United Kingdom
Tel: +44 (0)131 336 6165
Fax: + 44 (0)131 336 6001
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