Anil,
Sorry, if I got carried away and 'talked shop' with Joyce in a manner of
speaking.
A couple of notes yesterday were intended for her only, but once they go out
- well, it's pretty hard to pull them back. [I am still focused on trying
to get my o-scope working again.]
I believe that an important thing to remember is that no-one is going to
learn all there is to know about wirebonding just by reading this forum.
Typically, those that believe wire bonding is 'simple' usually prove to be
the worst when it comes to making reliable and consistent product. ....
Maybe Joyce or Inge have a comment on this.
Taking a wire bonding course at an IMAPS show will introduce one to the
fundamentals of manual wirebonding. Attending a class or two by George
Harman on reliability/bonding would also be good. But the real learning
seems to come from long hours, and struggling though many different
situations. Machines have different nuances [even personalities], parts are
different, materials react differently in different situations. Wire
bonders work in the µm realm, whereas most SMD stuff is in the tens-twenties
of µm world. It IS a different world down here. Possibly you have heard
the term 'stuff' rolls down hill? Well, many times when it finally makes it
to the wirebonding operation, it is no longer 'stuff' :-)
We do our best to reduce it to a Science, but a bit of Art still remains.
Many times, we are attempting to take a lot of variables into account.
So if a kindred soul happens along that appears to have gone through the
same struggles as you have, sometimes the conversation can reduce to
techno/geek babble that is Greek to someone else. For that I apologize.
.... Okay - so I am a WBA as Inge calls it/us, but who starts many of the
Friday mystery quizzes, etc ...??
FMQA - Friday Mystery Quiz Addict :-)
To all a good day, or evening, as the case may be
Steve C
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 6:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] ( NTC) Wire bond - ulysses -j.joyce
Wire bonding discussion seems to produce a lot of endorfins...imagine the
risk of being a Wire Bond Addictive.
/Inge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Whittaker, Dewey (EHCOE)" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:10 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] ( NTC) Wire bond - ulysses -j.joyce
Several of us have spun off and lit heavy on our heads: couldn't you
tell.
Dewey
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Anil kher
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 12:05 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] ( NTC) Wire bond - ulysses -j.joyce
This exciting interchange
Quote
Yap. Sit, wait, fire US with high power. Not something nice to have.
Too
much dumping."JK"
"Wild!!!
Steve"
Unquote
reminded me of the original Joyce - J.K writes close to James - enigmas
and
puzzles for non bonders like me.
And Stephen is taken up with the Joycean dream. Ulyses part 2.
Thanks folks fr the awakening. I am going to read it again.
Imagine - TN spinning off to heavy lit -
Anil
-----Original Message-----
From: Steven Creswick [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 22:40
Subject: Re: Wire bond
Let me know of you hear of one [non-bean counter] in my area!
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 12:59 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond
Not work for a bean counter is a big advantage to prolong life.
--------------------------
Sent using BlackBerry
----- Original Message -----
From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wed Aug 05 10:18:45 2009
Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond
And that's why I hired Joyce.
Bev
RIM
----- Original Message -----
From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wed Aug 05 10:11:14 2009
Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond
Joyce,
The 'law of bean-counters' is the same all over too. I would like to
see
them work around the problem and come up with a viable & reliable
solution!
They also don't always understand the old adage - "garbage in-garbage
out",
thinking that cheapest is always best.
I guess in some ways that applies to employment as well. Seems like
many
firms nowadays opt for the cheap, inexperienced individuals and
disregard
the experienced ones [excluding Steve Gregory].
I find that one usually gets what you pay for... Experience doesn't
always
come from a book, or a forum [although it can certainly help!]. Some of
the
greatest, most valuable learning experiences are those hardest learned.
I'm
sure we can each relate to that.
It seems silly not to pass knowledge along [unless it is proprietary,
etc].
Why waste energy/time/$ when we could bump ourselves up to the next
level of
creativity/productivity/technology...
Steve C
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Koo [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, August 05, 2009 9:53 AM
To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond
Good to know the law of physics didn't change across the boarder. Thx
to
confirm the method. Bean counter didn't like it, take few micro second
longer per bond. Impact on throughput. Of course, the bean counter
never
bond a single wire in his life.
--------------------------
Sent using BlackBerry
----- Original Message -----
From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wed Aug 05 08:12:29 2009
Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond
Joyce,
Exactly!! You've learned the hard way too! Took me a while to figure
it
out, but it is something I've never forgotten!
Very similar to bonding a MEMs device, attached with RTV. Wild!!!
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Joyce Koo [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 9:40 PM
To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond
Yap. Sit, wait, fire US with high power. Not something nice to have.
Too
much dumping.
--------------------------
Sent using BlackBerry
----- Original Message -----
From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tue Aug 04 19:05:16 2009
Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond
Joyce,
Even an acrylic PSA can get a little squishy at thermosonic temps.
Have you had to deal with stiffeners attached with silicone in the past?
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joyce Koo
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 2:48 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond
Attached with silicone?
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Kelly
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 1:55 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond
Hi Inge
- flex? - 18 micron copper on adhesiveless kapton - stiffener
underneath.
Regards Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge
Sent: August-04-09 1:52 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Wire bond
Ceramic : No
FR-4 : No
LTCC: No
Glass: No
Steel: No
Teflon: Yes
/Inge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Kelly" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:36 PM
Subject: [TN] Wire bond
Good Morning,
Does the size of a wire bond pad (in this case with a perfect etch .002
wide) have any effect on whether the wire bonder does Al wedge or
Thermosonic gold( I know the gold plating is different) - just asking
about
the process. Thanks. Steve Kelly
Steve Kelly (PLEASE NOTE NEW E-MAIL ADDRESS)
(416) 750-8433 (work)
(416) 750-0016 (fax)
(416) 577-8433 (cell)
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