Doug,
Since neither one of us live in the Town of Perfect near Minerva, here's
a WA (not Washington) idea.
Get a board, apply some lotion on it, then test it for ionic and
non-ionic residue to see how bad it is. You decide the test method
because I do not want to be held responsible for your ionic baths and
filters.
I worked in union and non-union shops and did not have the problem you
discussed. But I can see the train wreck as you described.
In writing this, I wonder what Terry Munson would say on the subject.
Quoting Andy Grove, "Only the Paranoid Survive".
Lee Whiteman, PMP
Senior Member Engineering Staff
L-3 Communications East
Telephone: (856) 338-3508
FAX: (856) 338-2906
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 4:15 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Hand Sanitizers Round 2
While I agree that in the Town of Perfect, none of these outside lotions
would be in the manufacturing area, but while Cedar Rapids is close to
Perfect, we ain't there. I could see a huge fight on my hands,
especially
with the unions, if we tried to prohibit all such materials, even from
women's handbags.
I think the key element to consider is how much of the ionic or
non-ionic
material actually gets transferred to the assembly. I have had
customers
come unglued when they come into our facility and handling assemblies
without gloves. They have calmed down when I explain that we have that
big Aquastorm just before conformal coating that cleans off the hand
residues and we handle with clean bags and gloved hands until the boards
are coated. This is what makes me wonder if this is much ado about
nothing.
Last summer, when Cedar Rapids had the massive flooding, we lost three
of
the four major municipal wells. To avoid water rationing measures, the
city asked everyone to voluntarily cut as much water usage as possible.
Rockwell put gallon jugs of hand sanitizer into all rest rooms to avoid
water in the sinks. Amazing how much that saves. I don't recall any
quality problems from the floor, such as loss of adhesion of coating or
adhesives, failures in test, etc, during the 3 weeks this was in effect.
We have fielded product over the last year and nothing has arisen that
would be traced to the use of these items. So again, do I worry too
much?
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
[log in to unmask]
06/19/2009 02:54 PM
To
"TechNet E-Mail Forum" <[log in to unmask]>, <[log in to unmask]>
cc
Subject
RE: [TN] Hand Sanitizers Round 2
Doug,
I had the same question asked of me by a sister facility recently...
While I do not know of any recent research on current hand lotions, my
take on it is to ban all lotions from the shop floor. In a prior life,
if an operator's hands got dirty, they were instructed to leave the work
center and wash their hands. Some operators would go to a "Wet Lab"
which was adjacent to the manufacturing shop to wash their hands in an
emergency situation.
I would be very cautious about putting anything in the shop to clean
operators' hands. Hand lotions can leave ionic and non-ionic
contamination and residues on the hardware, which can make the cleaning
processes less efficient.
Now if somebody has the bucks to spend on this subject, I'm sure that it
can be arranged.
Enjoy your Mountain Dew this weekend...
Lee Whiteman, PMP
Senior Member Engineering Staff
L-3 Communications East
Telephone: (856) 338-3508
FAX: (856) 338-2906
E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Friday, June 19, 2009 3:46 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Hand Sanitizers Round 2
Good afternoon all. I hesitate to ask this on a Friday afternoon, but
here goes.
Back in April, we had a Technet conversation about hand sanitizers and
possible effects on electronic assemblies. I just re-read the thread
from
the archives. There was a lot of speculation about the effectiveness of
these items from a bacteriological perspective, some about the chemicals
from Karen Tellefsen, but nothing really related specifically to known
failure mechanisms of these materials or studies that have been done.
I was not as concerned about this until I started looking harder in our
facility. I have found that there are several hand sanitizers here with
dyes and fragrances. Germ-X makes a green hand sanitizer with apple
fragrance, called Gnarly Green Apple. I would love to spec that
material
in here purely for the reason that it would be the first known use of
"gnarly" in a Rockwell spec. I wonder if the dyes are an issue or the
fragrances (usually oils).
I was just in a meeting discussing this with a number of leaders in
various manufacturing areas. We also have concerns about hand lotions
coming into the facilities in ladies purses and being used because they
don't like the smell of the approved ones we have from Chemtronics or
Techspray.
We have the big safety net in our facility of a saponified aqueous water
wash process just prior to conformal coating, and everything handled
with
gloves thereafter, but the intermediate steps where we might have
solderability issues or residues that might cause a high voltage power
supply to fail in ICT, have me wondering.
So, I ask the question if anyone in the Technet community knows of any
scientific study examining the transfer of hand sanitizer chemicals, or
hand lotion chemicals, to an electronic assembly and / or the
detrimental
effects of such residues. I can't believe that I am the first to ask
the
question and am wondering if someone else has already done an analysis
so
I don't have to re-invent the wheel.
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
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