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Subject:
From:
"Whittaker, Dewey (EHCOE)" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Whittaker, Dewey (EHCOE)
Date:
Thu, 28 May 2009 09:47:59 -0700
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (810 lines)
It just reinforces the theory that all intelligent life came from
plankton. Some remained board, others moved on.
Dewey

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David D. Hillman
Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 5:55 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC [TN] humidity test failure

Ah, now the phrase "rotting one's brain" makes all the sense in the
world. 


Dave



Douglas Pauls <[log in to unmask]> 
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
05/28/2009 07:43 AM
Please respond to
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
[log in to unmask]


To
[log in to unmask]
cc

Subject
Re: [TN] humidity test failure






Well that explains why Graham does not remember things very well.
Nothing 

bonds well with Teak, unless you wash it down with acetone first.

Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins



Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]> 
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
05/28/2009 07:40 AM
Please respond to
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
Graham Naisbitt <[log in to unmask]>


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Subject
Re: [TN] humidity test failure






AhHa! I now know what your problem is on the golf course Werner. You 
need to clear your mind of all thoughts and distractions. To play golf 
well, requires timber between the ears - and I should know!!

Mine is pure teak and very well oiled. (I thought I would get that in 
before Pauls, Hillman, Whittaker et al jump in.)

Regards

Graham Naisbitt

Email: [log in to unmask]
Phone: +44 (0)12 5252 1500
Web: www.gen3systems.com

On 28 May 2009, at 12:47, Werner Engelmaier /* wrote:

> Hi Mike,
> You are missing something, its called multi-tasking. You simply do 
> something else with your mind than what your body does?this can get 
> dangerous when the body does something that's fast, like skiing, 
> driving , biking, etc.
> So, my mind works 24/7/365.25 [to be precise] on the technical 
> stuff, but my body does other things [with some input from my mind].
> Sind alle Klarheiten beseitigt?
>
> Werner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Paul Reid <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Thu, 28 May 2009 6:50 am
> Subject: Re: [TN] humidity test failure
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> It should be noted that I frequently call Werner for advice only to 
> find
> him on the Golf Course. I am sure that, for Werner, golfing counts as
> work. 24/7 sounds about right for Werner.
>
> Paul Reid
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Fenner
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 3:46 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] humidity test failure
>
> Werner I follow everything you say very carefully, but sometimes you 
> are
> too advanced for me: If you work 24/7/365 presumably you only do all
> this sporting, grandchilding and wifing stuff one day every 4 years, 
> and
> you say you are waiting for Friday. So I assume that you have declared
> that to be your official leap day [as opposed to Feb 29 like the 
> rest of
> us]. Is that how consultancy works or am I missing something?
>
> Regards
>
>
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Werne
> r Engelmaier /*
> Sent: Thursday, May 28, 2009 12:50 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] humidity test failure
>
> George,
> First, I have 6 grandkids;
> Second, I am an avid golfer [not particularly good--I try too hard];
> Third, I play tennis; Fourth, my real passion is skiing [I get 
> faster to
> Utah from Florida than from New Jersey]; oh, I almost forgot---I got a
> wife.
> Is it Friday yet?
> Werner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wenger, George M. <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 2:55 pm
> Subject: Re: [TN] humidity test failure
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Werner,
>
> Ingemar's offer sounds too good to pass up.
>
>
> Werner,
>
> Ingemar's offer sounds too good to pass up.  The real problem is what
> would you do with all of the free time?
>
> Regards,
> George
> George M. Wenger
> Andrew Solutions
> Senior Principal FMA/Reliability Engineer 40 Technology Drive, Warren,
> NJ 07059
> (908) 546-4531 (Office) (732) 309-8964 (cell) [log in to unmask]
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge
> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 2:47 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] humidity test failure
>
> Better you quit, and I take your job and get your salary, I become 
> rich
> = 10 times what I have now. It's so much , that I can be generous and
> give you one half back= you get money without doing nothing.
> Inge
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Werner Engelmaier /*" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:59 PM
> Subject: Re: [TN]=2
> 0humidity test failure
>
>
> No, if you quit and become a consultant, you become richer-the
> up-side.
> The
> down--you are on the job 24/7/365.
>
> Werner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Inge <[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wed, 27 May 2009 1:45 pm
> Subject: Re: [TN] humidity test failure
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> So, if I quit, you become richer, can we share your
> extras?
>
>
> Inge
>
>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>
> From:
>  [log in to unmask]
>
>
> To: [log in to unmask] ; [log in to unmask]
>
>
> Sent: Wednesday, May 27, 2009 7:08
>  PM
>
>
> Subject: Re: [TN] humidity test
>  failure
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Hi Inge,
> "Why do we repeat all failures that have
>  been known for decades?"
> Easy, most companies get rid of their experienced
>  people. And the new hires simply do not have the time to learn about
> anything
>  that happened previously.
> --sure keeps consultants busy,
>  though.
>
> Werner
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Inge <[log in to unmask]>
> To:
>  [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Wed, 27 May 2009
>  1:02 pm
> Subject: Re: [TN] humidity test failure
>
>
>
> We
>  had an awful lot of environmental test chambers, and we followed
> MIL-STD
> like
>  a blind klinging to his stick. With time, we have realized the
> questionable
>  relationship between those tests and the unpredictable mother Nature.
> The
>  exact repetition of temperature up, temp down, dwell, temp down=2
> 0etc does not
>  always correspond to the erratic reality with endless v
> ariations and
>  combinations of condensation and vibration, heat and salt, power
> switching 0Aand
>  deep freeze, sun irradiation and sand blast , very short exposure
> followed
> by
>  extremly long one etc etc. I listened to a guy who was a successful
> design
>  manager, whose motto was 'skip all testing, do the right design or
> process
>  from the beginnin g' . Easy said, but still interesting topic. Am
> brought
> up
>  with MIL-STD, so I'm little ambivalent, but I try to think like him.
> And,
> in
>  fact, with all billion hours of testing everything on this planet,
> should
> we
>  not have background enough for avoiding all disasters..like corroded
> ceramic
>  caps, for instance. Why do we repeat
>  all failures that have been known for
>  decades?
>
> Inge
>
> ----- Original
>  Message ----- From: "Chris Mahanna" <[log in to unmask]>
> To:
>  <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent:
>  Wednesday, May 27, 2009 6:34 PM
> Subject: Re: [TN] humidity test
>  failure
>
> Hi Wayne,
>
> Agreed. The DUT
>  probably slipped close to, or below dew. Close can be just as bad.
> And,
> surely
>  there is trapped ionics. But, I suspect a correlation ranking might
> show
> those
>  non-wetted solderable surfaces as your real
>  culprit.
>
> Ability to control the chamber and DUT is highly
>  dependent on absolute humidity. 85/85 is very tough. Anything higher
> is
> crazy.
> =2
> 0 The common 25-65C, 90% is quite difficult without good multi loop
> control.
> If
>  you're cycling a heavy assembly you will probably want to use the
> sur
> face
> temp
>  as an input to your controller.
> IPC-9201A is a good source of info.
> =2
> 0 NPL has several papers.
>
> Fully processed comb patterns can
>  'survive' 85/85 or 25-65/90 SIR/ECM tests for 1000 hours without cc,
> but
> it's
>  not
>  easy.
>
> Chris
>
>
>
> -----Original
>  Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>  Thayer, Wayne
> Sent: Tuesday, May 26, 2009 10:01 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [TN]
>  humidity test failure
>
> Hi Technet
>  Gurus!
>
> I have attached a picture of a part responsible for
>  excess current draw during an extended humidity/temperature cycling
> test.
> (I
>  copied Steve so he can hopefully post!)
>
> The board was
>  carefully solvent cleaned, but no SIR test validating the process
> strips
> all
>  ionic contamination. The board is in an enclosure where plenty of
> ionic
>  contaminants are available.
>
> Humidity was supposed to not
>  exceed 90% and was to be non-condensing during cycling. There were a
> handful
>  of components which displayed similar deposits on the same circuit
> board.
>  These were the only parts biased during the humidity test. I believe
> the
>  evidence suggests at least some condensation occurred. To me the
> deposits
> look
>  like salts. But what do
> "the experts" think?
>
> Is there any
>  rule of thumb as to humidity levels where we are nuts to try to
> survive
>  without conformal coating? Part of the adjacent circuitry contains RF
> devices
>  and those guys get panic-stricken when told we probably n eed to
>
> conformal
>  coat!
>
> Wayne Thayer
>
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