Typical for ordering you have identified the correct model AP9121 is RA.
When you want ED which I don't think all clad come available with ED it ends
with "E".
Laser burning kapton is done everyday although you may need plasma etch to
remove all the residue. Flex is a great product but when things go wrong it
usually gets messy. Have fun!
www.quickturnflex.com
Thank you,
Jim Mahoney
Quick Turn Flex Circuits, LLC
Applications Project Manager
P# 603-821-7071
M# 603-305-6250
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-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Foster
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 1:21 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] FLEX question
Does AP 9121 necessarily mean Dupont pyralux material?
I saw on the dupont datasheet that you could order this material
As ED but my fabricator assures me that they used RA material.
My fabricator says he can remove the coverlay with a CO2 laser.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chuck Brummer
Sent: Friday, May 15, 2009 10:17 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] FLEX question
Guys,
AP 9121 1 ox copper is not automatically RA, we purchase it as ED all
the
time. Even then it should not be that sensitive. Plating plays a big
roll in the propensity to crack.
You can open up the polyimide by Plasma etching but there are draw-backs
to that and you probably don't have a plasma etcher. There are several
wet etch methods as well but unless you have a pretty good tech for this
type of thing I suggest you stay with either the dremmel tool or sand
blasting using aluminum oxide and the pen type system. I know of two,
both made here in the San Fernando Valley.
If you are looking for cracks look for ripples in the traces. We have
found cracks next to stress in the copper that can look like waves.
more later,
Chuck Brummer
3M Manufacturing Engineer
8357 Canoga Ave.
Canoga Park, CA 91304-2605
(818) 734-4930
Werner Engelmaier /* <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
05/14/2009 06:29 PM
Please respond to
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
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To
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cc
Subject
Re: [TN] FLEX question
Hi John,
Unfortunately, you do not give us an adequate picture of the situation.
Missing:
1) 2-mil core thickness, the critical dimension is 1/2 of core plus
2x1.4
mils=2.4 mils [not exactly small];
2) bend radius, approximately .35 inches could be an average with
minimum
much smaller depending on who and how the bend is made;
3) fracture location is not clear, open is about in the middle of the
flexible section?does that mean half-way between the stiffener and the
connector?
4) any cracks in the 17-mil wide traces?
5) While you say the CU is rolled annealed, have you confirmed the
anealing?if not annealed the ductility in the rolling direction will be
significantly larger than X-rolling direction?you can tell be etched
x-sections showing needle-like grains in the rolling direction;
Obvious:
1) Crack propagation being roughly equal, the 8-mil trace will show an
open first;
2) if not fully annealed, rolled Cu direction should be along flexed
leg.
Werner
-----Original Message-----
From: John Foster <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thu, 14 May 2009 8:52 pm
Subject: [TN] FLEX question
I was hoping I could get some input on a problem we are having with a
flex circuit.
I have a 2 layer flex circuit that is shaped like a L. one leg is about
5 inches long the other leg is about 4 inches long
At the corner of the L is a stiffener on both sides. The stiffener
extends into both L sections a very small amount about=2
0.3 inches.
Both ends of the flex have Omnetics connectors which are designed to be
soldered onto flex circuits. The A28300 series. Some of the traces are
17 mils wide and some are 8 mils wide. The traces are spaced fairly
evenly across the flex and are spaced like the omnetics connector which
means you can't see through the circuit as the traces overlap from side
to side. One section of the L flexs the other section is stationary.
The bend radius for the flexible section is approximately .35 inches ( I
am not positive of this number and will find out tomorrow but I know it
is far more the 6X of the thickness). The flex is constructed as follows
The core is AP-9121 with 1 oz copper on both sides.
The coverlays are LF-0110
The adhesive for the stiffener is LF-0200
And the stiffeners are .028 FR-4
The edges of the stiffeners are beaded with emerson & cummings ecobond.
I have spoken with the fabricator and they assure me that the copper is
roll annealed and not electro deposited.
The flex circuit has failed after less than 1000 cycles. The cycles are
very slow and maybe 10 or 20 per day.
The current going through the traces is very low on the order of 10 mA.
We have had two circuits fail and they both have failed on the 8 mil
traces. I have scraped the coverlay off of the flex and have concluded
that the open is about in the middle of the flexible section but I can't
see it. I would have expected to see an open at the=2
0end of the coverlay
as I have seen this before. We have been potting the connectors to move
the stress point from the omnetics connector pins to further down the
flex past the end of the coverlay.
I have a couple of questions.
1. Is there a way to remove the coverlay without using mechanical
means I fear that I could screw up the sample by scraping it with a
razor.
2. Does this surprise anyone that it would fail this soon with a
bend radius that I know is large and only a 2 mil core?
The flex has been removed many times from the system and reinstalled and
I am still having a hard time convincing people that flex circuits must
be treated with care. i.e. can't be laid on benches and smashed.
Tomorrow I will get to get into the system and see the mechanicals but
the mechys assure me that at no time is the flex stretched to the point
of pulling the bend radius down. I soldered a wire onto the connector
and ran a needle up and down the scraped flex and it sure seems as
though it opens about in the middle of the flexible section.
Anyway any input will be appreciated
Thank you
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