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Subject:
From:
Werner Engelmaier /* <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Date:
Thu, 19 Mar 2009 14:01:08 -0400
Content-Type:
text/plain
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text/plain (369 lines)
 Well, Eric, not quit [see my e-mail just after yours]

Werner


 


 

-----Original Message-----
From: Honsowetz, Eric <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thu, 19 Mar 2009 10:02 am
Subject: Re: [TN] Using CEM-1 in Pb-free Wave Solder?










Not to burst anyone's illusions but the Japanese use the same suppliers
and the same processes and the same requirements as the Americans. 

Best Regards,
 
eric
 
248-447-1038 (desk)
734-223-5599 (cell)
 

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lee parker
Sent: Thursday, March 19, 2009 8:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Using CEM-1 in Pb-free Wave Solder?

I suppose this is one of the reasons that many years ago I began buying
Japanese automobiles and never looked back!

Best regards
Lee
JLP Consultants LLC
804 779 3389  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Werner Engelmaier /*<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
  To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 8:33 PM
  Subject: Re: [TN] Using CEM-1 in Pb-free Wave Solder?


  Hi Lee,
  The 4+ million recall was forced by NHTSA-what happened was that the
windshield wipers stopped working---sometimes in less than one year.
  In terms of technical documentation; I use it as a case study in my
'Root Cause Analysis' workshop.


   No preproduction certification that I know of; and if they did they
obviously did not know what they were doing---but that, of course, is
not unique to GM.

  Werner


   

  -----Original Message-----
  From: Lee parker <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
  To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
  Sent: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 8:21 pm
  Subject: Re: [TN] Using CEM-1 in Pb-free Wave Solder?










  Werner

  Has this GM issue been documented anywhere. 

  Also, I am wondering why the laminate manufactures have not responded
to this 
  inquiry.

  I have worked with many customers who have had CEM-1 boards built in
Asia and I 
  am not aware of any adverse effects although none were automotive.
Generally, we 
  were careful to be sure that the material was compatible with the
specified 
  environment. Was any preproduction certification performed in the case
you 
  mentioned below?

  Best regards
  Lee
  JLP Consultants LLC
  804 779 3389  
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Werner Engelmaier
/*<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> 
    To:
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]:T
[log in to unmask]>> 
    Sent: Wednesday, March 18, 2009 3:08 PM
    Subject: Re: [TN] Using CEM-1 in Pb-free Wave Solder?


    Hi Eric,
    IPC has quality Classes 1 through 3; CEM-1 with unsupported holes is
Class -1.
    This is the same material
  /design combination that resulted in GM having to 
  recall over 4 million SUVs and trucks.
    CEM-1 not only has a high CTE, but also is hygroscopic and swells 
  significantly when absorbing moisture-bad combination for Pb-free T's
and 
  automotive application.

    Werner


     


     

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Honsowetz, Eric
<[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]
OM%3Cmailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
    To:
[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]:T
[log in to unmask]>>
    Sent: Wed, 18 Mar 2009 2:59 pm
    Subject: [TN] Using CEM-1 in Pb-free Wave Solder?










    Good Afternoon Technetters;

    So having been googling through this question for a couple of days
off
    an on I am turning to that one definite source of knowledge, you
all...

    What are the ideas regarding using CEM-1 material in a Pb-free (SAC)
    wave soldering process for a high reliability product (Automotive -
15
    year life without failure).  This would be a copper on one side
board
    with through-hole parts only.

    BTW googling provides the best of both worlds....people saying "yes"
and
    others saying "no" so whatever your answer you can't be wrong. :)

    Best Regards,
     
    eric
     
    248-447-1038 (desk)
    734-223-5599 (cell)


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