I think you are possibly conflating separate things.
The pot cover chemicals are essentially just oils, waxes, resins which
exclude air from the solder pot and reduce drossing by altering the surface
tension of the solder/dross mix to release good material. With introduction
of turbulent waves for SMT these pot products fell out of favour.
It's a while since I was deeply involved in wave soldering, so I am not sure
if there are issues related to this type of product getting on to boards.
The supplier's for sure will have data.
Skimmed dross has a lot of metal in it according to how heavy handed the
skim person is and different variations of these are used to aid recovery of
that in a separate operation form the pot.
Phosphorus works slightly differently; it is incorporated into the solder.
It does reduce drossing, but the benefit is relatively short-lived. I was
never convinced that it was worthwhile and was suspicious that adding non
metals like P was not conducive to good soldering. Some people may be able
to address that.
Regards
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Goulet
Sent: Sunday, March 15, 2009 2:43 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Additive to reduce dross in Wave solder
I would ask if the fumes react with the burnt fluxes and increase the health
riskes to the operator especially during the maintenance.
In the past a lot of de-dross formulas consisted of phosphorous and some of
the virgin solders have phosphorous in there as well to reduce dross
formation.
----- Original Message -----
From: "stephengregory5849" <[log in to unmask]>
To: "TechNet E-Mail Forum" <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 7:53:09 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [TN] Additive to reduce dross in Wave solder
Another question I have is, does the MS2 leave any kind of residues on the
pot walls or wave formers?
Dross formation has become somewhat a topic of discussion here. It has been
noticed that we've been generating more dross with our new Vitronics/Soltec
Delta-5 than we did when we had a Technical Devices wave solder machine. I
tend to think that is because we've been waving more boards in selective
solder pallets than we did in the past, and also partially because of the
wave dynamics in the Delta-5...it seems to circulate the solder more.
One last question, what do the solder recovery systems cost?
Steve
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Goulet" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, March 14, 2009 1:27 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Additive to reduce dross in Wave solder
With the high cost of LF solder I don't want to add anything and have 1,800
lbs of bad Pb-free solder.
I would rather buy a recovery system and return the same good solder into
the pot.
I also have to be conscious of the safety aspects of the fumes and reaction
between the additive with the flux used and the solder.
Some of the fluxes have added things so the fumes aren't obnoxious but that
doesn't mean they are safe.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard D. Stadem" <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 12:10:25 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern
Subject: Re: [TN] Additive to reduce dross in Wave solder
No, like I said we do not use this material in the selective soldering
process.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carl Proescholdt
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 9:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Additive to reduce dross in Wave solder
Richard,
Have you seen any change in bridging or other soldering performance on
the selective process due to the addition of this material?
Carl
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 8:22 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Additive to reduce dross in Wave solder
We use this product in our Robotic Tinning Cells made by V-Tek. These
cells have automatic dross skimmers on top of the laminar flow solder
wells, and when we use this product coupled with our proprietary oxygen
evacuation vapor barrier the amount of dross is cut way, way down. It is
a good product. We used to use a number of de-oxidizers in our wave
solder machine, and this was the last one we used before shutting the
machine down. We no longer need to run the wave solder machine because
we added selective solder, which uses only the oxygen evacuation vapor
blanket over the fountain (no nitrogen needed). But I strongly recommend
you try the MS2 in your wave solder pot. It should work better than
Oxy-clean and other brands.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Carl Proescholdt
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 7:37 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Additive to reduce dross in Wave solder
John,
I am glad you asked this. I just received an advertisement from some
company called PKMetal for a "MS2 Molten Solder Surfactant" which is
supposed to reduce dross. It worries me to add anything to the pot that
might be a pain to deal with later. So...I was wondering the same
thing! What's the experience out there?
Carl
dca
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of john
Sent: Tuesday, March 10, 2009 5:04 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] Additive to reduce dross in Wave solder
Hi Guys, have you any thoughts on adding an additive to the wave solder
pots to reduce dross have any of you had experience with this
application I have been asked to look at this
and It scares me a little
The purpose of this project is to evaluate the two high potential Solder
Surfactant/Antioxidant, MS2-200LF & JR07-VI, to get its quantitive and
qualitative performance and cost saving in lead-free wave soldering
process.
JTEC-EUROPE Ltd.
Cell / Mobile : +44(0)7921 197 587,
Office Dial : +44(0)1355271970,
Email: [log in to unmask],
Skype: john.jtec
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