Hi Inge,
You are going super-conservative in your old age. Heck, I have had accelerated tests with mean cyclic lives of 100 cycles and others with no failures in 100,000 cycle---It all depends.
If you understand the load drivers and the connections to cyclic life, you can execute a proper Design-for-Reliability in almost all cases; the tricky part is getting all the necessary info, AND getting correct info.
Werner
-----Original Message-----
From: Inge <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Mon, 30 Mar 2009 6:28 pm
Subject: Re: [TN] solder fatigue predictions for highly asymmetrical duty cycles
not an answer, but some reflections....?
?
I'm not a guru, more of a practical gnu. We have some math specialists who
have produced models and calculations that make a normal reader exhausted to
go from page 1 to page 200. After going through some reports like that, you
feel rather disoriented. So, in order to know about the failure modes and
six sigma, Time to Failure and such parameters, we decided to go the
hands-on way. We 'simply' produced a lot of cloned boards with a substantial
lot of components on, and started temp cycling with various symmetries and
limits. Believe it or not, we have passed 10,000 cycles in some cases. The
result will not be known until the end of this year. This method is not very
comfortable either, making all these hundreds of microscope inspections and
measure daisy chains and other stuff. Because our customer wants this way,
we simply do it. Personally, I prefer neither of the ways, but more of a
cautious and well performed design. Follow the derating rules, don't buy
components from unknown manufacturers, hold back when the design engineers
excess in very large or very odd boards, keep to a board producer you know,
don't mix extremly hot components with mW components and a lot more of
goodies . Sounds like stopping the development of new technology, but after
reading Toyota's LEAN thinking, it seems as making many small development
steps are safer, than to make a brand new super design. In earlier days, we
had time to make prototypes, take our time and make a small pre-series, then
introduce improvements, longlife test and slowly start series production.
Now we go directly from CAD engineering to production....?
says an old dog?
?
Inge?
?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nieznanski, John A - SSD" <[log in to unmask]>?
To: <[log in to unmask]>?
Sent: Monday, March 30, 2009 10:05 PM?
Subject: [TN] solder fatigue predictions for highly asymmetrical duty cycles?
?
Hello Tech-Net Gurus,?
?
The solder fatigue parameters called out in IPC-D-279, IPC-SM-785 and
IPC-9701 all assume symmetrical (i.e. 50%) duty cycles and temperature
swings. This raises the question as to how far these calculations can be
pushed to predict solder fatigue in low duty cycle, variable duty cycle or
high duty cycle applications.?
?
In particular, Tsj ( = mean cyclic solder joint temperature), and tD ( =
half-cycle dwell time in minutes) are both used and are directly affected by
duty cycle. It is simple enough to recalculate these values based on
asymmetrical duty cycles, but how do we know that the predicted solder
fatigue results are still valid? If we know, do we know what assumptions are
required to make the results valid? This seems like a fairly common
situation. Has anyone correlated measured results to predictions in this
regard??
?
Specifically, there are numerous caveats in the specs including for example,
high-frequency (e.g, vibration) conditions where tD < 1 second, but none of
these caveats apply here.?
?
For example, with a power on dwell time of 6 minutes (system reaches thermal
equilibrium in < 1 minute) and a power off dwell time of 54 minutes (10%
duty cycle), I assume I can simply use tD = 6 minute dwells and Tsj =
average solder joint temperature over 60 minute cycle. Do you agree with
this approach??
?
Another potential case of interest is if the duty cycle is reduced to
something less than 1 minute (but more than 1 second; not a vibration
situation), such that the stabilized operating temperature is not reached.
Can any valid fatigue calculations be performed in these cases if I can
determine a valid Tsj for a 1 minute tD??
?
Thanks in advance for your insights and assistance.?
?
Best regards,?
?
John N.?
?
________________________________?
This e-mail and any files transmitted with it may be proprietary and are
intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are
addressed. If you have received this e-mail in error please notify the
sender.?
Please note that any views or opinions presented in this e-mail are solely
those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of ITT
Corporation. The recipient should check this e-mail and any attachments for
the presence of viruses. ITT accepts no liability for any damage caused by
any virus transmitted by this e-mail.?
?
---------------------------------------------------?
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0?
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in?
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet?
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)?
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest?
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives?
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-615-7100 ext.2815?
----------------------------------------------------- ?
---------------------------------------------------?
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0?
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in?
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet?
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)?
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest?
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives?
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815?
-----------------------------------------------------?
---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 15.0
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-----------------------------------------------------
|