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February 2009

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From:
John Goulet <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Date:
Mon, 2 Feb 2009 01:14:13 +0000
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For cleaning PCAs after repair or post wave assembly this new product by 3M is great. No more worry about No-Cleans turning white like other flux removers. Cleans OA, water soluble fluxes also. 3M Novec (tm) Aerosol Flux Remover (12oz can) (Brands / 3M / 3M ... 3M ™ Novec™ Flux Remover uses advanced 3M solvent technology to clean rosin solder fluxes , ... 3M Novec (tm) Aerosol Contact Cleaner (11oz can) HFE-7100 ... http://www.galladechem.com/catalog/3m/3m-novec-tm-aerosol-flux-remover--12oz-can.htm - 16k - Cached  -  Similar pages From John Goulet,   [log in to unmask] 
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Joseph E Kane (US SSA)" <[log in to unmask]> 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Thursday, January 22, 2009 5:03:06 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern 
Subject: Re: [TN] No Clean that can be removed? 

We use Vigon A200 solution very successfully for cleaning RMA (as well 
as an OA flux), but I wouldn't therefore characterize rosin-based 
fluxes as "water washable".  Maybe I'm confusing "water washable" with 
"water soluble".  Never mind. 

Question though - anyone have experience with both Vigon A200 and 
Kyzen 4625B, and would comment on the relative merits? 

Joe Kane 
BAE Systems 
Johnson City, NY 



-----Original Message----- 
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D. 
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:03 PM 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: [TN] No Clean that can be removed? 

I knew Technet could depend (ka-ching) on you, Doug! 

-----Original Message----- 
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls 
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:58 PM 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: [TN] No Clean that can be removed? 

Bob, 
We use Indium SMQ-92J and Alpha UP-78M as solder pastes.  Both are 
cleaned well with Kyzen Aquanox A4520 in an in-line cleaning process. 

Doug Pauls 
Rockwell Collins 



Robert Kondner <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet 
<[log in to unmask]> 
01/21/2009 02:03 PM 
Please respond to 
[log in to unmask] 


To 
[log in to unmask] 
cc 

Subject 
[TN] No Clean that can be removed? 






Hi, 

  For the no clean fluxes that are removed with a saponifier, can you 
name a couple or point me in the right direction? 

  I found that some no cleans had a wider temperature/time process 
window than any of the OA fluxes but we never found anything that cleans 
Alpha 
6100.   Through hole and rework was forcing up to clean (water based) 
and 
washing the no cleans cause problems. 

  The Alpha 6100 was a no clean and a stenciled board could sit for a 
few days without a complete dry out of the paste. But the 6100 residue 
DOES NOT CLEAN OFF in anything I found. 

  I would love to find a no clean with a wide temp window and no dry 
out, like the Alpha 6100, but is also easy to remove. My previous 
understanding was all water soluble fluxes were variations on OA flux 
which require cleaning. 

  When I saw that 4300 I was very surprised. Is it for real? 

Thanks, 
Bob Kondner 

-----Original Message----- 
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D. 
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:47 PM 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: [TN] Strange Mask Appearance 

There are many no-clean residues that are easily cleaned in a good 
machine wash process with a saponifier added. 

-----Original Message----- 
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kane, Joseph E (US 
SSA) 
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:42 PM 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: [TN] Strange Mask Appearance 

Steve: 

How can a no-clean flux be water-washable?  If you leave residue on 
there, any moisture encountered in service would attack it, dissolving 
and spreading ionic contaminants, and causing corrosion, shorts, lifting 
of coating. 

And if it's something that you must clean anyway, why not use something 
more active, with a wider process window? 

Or what am I missing? 

-Joe 

-----Original Message----- 
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory 
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:04 AM 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: [TN] Strange Mask Appearance 

Hi Bill! 

Yes, I would like your photos, thank-you very much. 

To respond to Tan Geok Ang, the flux we used for the rework is Amtech 
4300, a solvent-based (ethanol), water washable no-clean. I know the 
picture looks like the area around the screw heads is delaminated, but 
it is not. The copper is relieved around the holes for the hardware in 
the inner planes and that may contribute to the appearance that there's 
delamination. 

Here's a photo of the same exact place on the same exact board after 
doing nothing but heating the PCB up to 125 C. as I described in my 
earlier post. 

http://stevezeva.homestead.com/files/Mask_Discoloration_After_Heating.jp 
g 

And the "before" photo: 

http://stevezeva.homestead.com/files/Mask_Discoloration.jpg 

Pretty dramatic change huh? 

Steve 

-----Original Message----- 
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask] 
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 1:59 PM 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Subject: Re: [TN] Strange Mask Appearance 

Steve- I'm probably the culprit that put that report on TN long ago- and 
again recently. Liquid solder masks often use fumed silica as 
filler/thickener to keep it in place. This is often sold under the 
Cab-O-Sil tradename. 
Aggressive cleaning agents can dissolve off part of the under or un 
cured solder mask polymer, exposing the while silica filler. When you 
heat the undercured mask, it will soften and allow the filler to sink 
down into the polymer, so the solder mask all looks green again. 
Re the curing from wave solder, this may not work if you are working 
with a UV cured mask. That's why it is important to monitor the output 
of UV lamps, which not all shops do, thinking that UV lamps behave the 
same as incandescent 
 lamps- which they don't. 
Yes, the heat gun is a very inexpensive $0.05 test, quick, easy and 
requires no instrumentation. 
  
(Steve- I have some photos of the differences between one, two and three 
passes under UV lamps to show the difference if you'd like them. If so, 
pls give me a mailing address.) 

Bill  Kenyon 
Global Centre Consulting 
3336 Birmingham Drive 
Fort Collins, CO  80526 
Tel: 970.207.9586   Cell:  970.980.6373 

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