We use Vigon A200 solution very successfully for cleaning RMA (as well
as an OA flux), but I wouldn't therefore characterize rosin-based
fluxes as "water washable". Maybe I'm confusing "water washable" with
"water soluble". Never mind.
Question though - anyone have experience with both Vigon A200 and
Kyzen 4625B, and would comment on the relative merits?
Joe Kane
BAE Systems
Johnson City, NY
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 4:03 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] No Clean that can be removed?
I knew Technet could depend (ka-ching) on you, Doug!
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Douglas Pauls
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:58 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] No Clean that can be removed?
Bob,
We use Indium SMQ-92J and Alpha UP-78M as solder pastes. Both are
cleaned well with Kyzen Aquanox A4520 in an in-line cleaning process.
Doug Pauls
Rockwell Collins
Robert Kondner <[log in to unmask]> Sent by: TechNet
<[log in to unmask]>
01/21/2009 02:03 PM
Please respond to
[log in to unmask]
To
[log in to unmask]
cc
Subject
[TN] No Clean that can be removed?
Hi,
For the no clean fluxes that are removed with a saponifier, can you
name a couple or point me in the right direction?
I found that some no cleans had a wider temperature/time process
window than any of the OA fluxes but we never found anything that cleans
Alpha
6100. Through hole and rework was forcing up to clean (water based)
and
washing the no cleans cause problems.
The Alpha 6100 was a no clean and a stenciled board could sit for a
few days without a complete dry out of the paste. But the 6100 residue
DOES NOT CLEAN OFF in anything I found.
I would love to find a no clean with a wide temp window and no dry
out, like the Alpha 6100, but is also easy to remove. My previous
understanding was all water soluble fluxes were variations on OA flux
which require cleaning.
When I saw that 4300 I was very surprised. Is it for real?
Thanks,
Bob Kondner
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard D.
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 2:47 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Strange Mask Appearance
There are many no-clean residues that are easily cleaned in a good
machine wash process with a saponifier added.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Kane, Joseph E (US
SSA)
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 1:42 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Strange Mask Appearance
Steve:
How can a no-clean flux be water-washable? If you leave residue on
there, any moisture encountered in service would attack it, dissolving
and spreading ionic contaminants, and causing corrosion, shorts, lifting
of coating.
And if it's something that you must clean anyway, why not use something
more active, with a wider process window?
Or what am I missing?
-Joe
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
Sent: Wednesday, January 21, 2009 11:04 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Strange Mask Appearance
Hi Bill!
Yes, I would like your photos, thank-you very much.
To respond to Tan Geok Ang, the flux we used for the rework is Amtech
4300, a solvent-based (ethanol), water washable no-clean. I know the
picture looks like the area around the screw heads is delaminated, but
it is not. The copper is relieved around the holes for the hardware in
the inner planes and that may contribute to the appearance that there's
delamination.
Here's a photo of the same exact place on the same exact board after
doing nothing but heating the PCB up to 125 C. as I described in my
earlier post.
http://stevezeva.homestead.com/files/Mask_Discoloration_After_Heating.jp
g
And the "before" photo:
http://stevezeva.homestead.com/files/Mask_Discoloration.jpg
Pretty dramatic change huh?
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: Tuesday, January 20, 2009 1:59 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Strange Mask Appearance
Steve- I'm probably the culprit that put that report on TN long ago- and
again recently. Liquid solder masks often use fumed silica as
filler/thickener to keep it in place. This is often sold under the
Cab-O-Sil tradename.
Aggressive cleaning agents can dissolve off part of the under or un
cured solder mask polymer, exposing the while silica filler. When you
heat the undercured mask, it will soften and allow the filler to sink
down into the polymer, so the solder mask all looks green again.
Re the curing from wave solder, this may not work if you are working
with a UV cured mask. That's why it is important to monitor the output
of UV lamps, which not all shops do, thinking that UV lamps behave the
same as incandescent
lamps- which they don't.
Yes, the heat gun is a very inexpensive $0.05 test, quick, easy and
requires no instrumentation.
(Steve- I have some photos of the differences between one, two and three
passes under UV lamps to show the difference if you'd like them. If so,
pls give me a mailing address.)
Bill Kenyon
Global Centre Consulting
3336 Birmingham Drive
Fort Collins, CO 80526
Tel: 970.207.9586 Cell: 970.980.6373
**************A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2
easy steps!
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