Hi Karl,
The whole purpose of the STII concept was to be simple to the point of being simplistic---it certainly is better than an arbitrary Keyword: "Lead-free compatible." And certainly, it was never intended to take the place of qualification runs.
If anybody placed confidence an just the STII-value, that clearly is a misuse of its purpose.
Werner
-----Original Message-----
From: Karl Sauter <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Sent: Thu, 4 Dec 2008 12:41 pm
Subject: Re: [LF] Fwd: Draft for IPC-4101C
Sun Microsystems has found the STII formula to be overly simplistic,
with great potential for false confidence. In-depth qualification runs
for evaluating lead-free assembly board processing are still required.
The addition of new test methods such as fracture toughness may
potentially mitigate this requirement.?
?
Regards,?
Karl Sauter?
?
Stadem, Richard D. wrote, On 12/04/08 05:34:?
> I couldn't agree more. I don't understand why the STII formula would?
> not be added with alacrity and dispatch.?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Fox, Ian?
> Sent: Thursday, December 04, 2008 2:59 AM?
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [LF] Fwd: Draft for IPC-4101C?
>?
> Werner, I like the STII concept and in my opinion not only should it be?
> in 4101 it should also be included in the materials section of 2221.?
>?
> Regards?
> Ian Fox?
> Goodrich ECS?
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Werner engelmaier?
> Sent: 03 December 2008 23:11?
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: [LF] Fwd: Draft for IPC-4101C?
>?
>?
> Guys & Gals,?
> Doug Sober wrote:?
>?
> "I admit that we promised you consideration for the C Revision.? We do?
> need some testimonials for people that feel that it has value.?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> For sure your recipe makes sense and it does provide a guide to?
> lead-free assembly compatibility, however the materials picked by this?
> method are normally the higher Tg, higher priced and more specialized?
> FR-4.?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> Customers cannot always purchase?
> specification sheet 126 materials.?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> But I would be willing to listen to the?
> testimonials. ?It is not going to happen for this revision however.?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> Doug"?
>?
> Keep those 'testimonials' coming. I guess we do technology by democratic?
> principles.?
>?
> Of course, you do not need /126 for most applications. My take on the 12?
> keyworded:?
> "Lead-free-FR-4" slash-sheet material groups in the C-rev is as follows:?
>?
>?
> For Rev. C (Final Draft) /126, /129, /130 and /131 are fully compatible?
> with?
> /126 and /130 being the best choices because of their lower CTE(z), and?
> /99, /124, /125 and /128 limited; the others [/101, /121, /122, /127]?
> keyworded:?
> "Lead-free-FR-4' may be problematic with LF-soldering temperatures.
>?
>?
> Just for reference, for Rev. B, /126 and /129 are fully compatible, /99?
> and?
> /124 to a more limited extent.
>?
> You should have an easily-applied tool to pre-select materials likely?
> meeting your needs.?
>?
>?
>
>?
> Regards,?
>?
> Werner Engelmaier?
>?
> Engelmaier Associates, L.C.?
>?
> Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting?
>?
> 7 Jasmine Run?
>?
> Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA?
>?
> Phone: 386-437-8747, Cell: 386-316-5904?
>?
> E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com?
>?
>?
>
>?
> -----Original Message-----?
> From: Sober, Doug <[log in to unmask]>?
> To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask]
> Cc: [log in to unmask]; tony senese <[log in to unmask]>?
> Sent: Wed, 3 Dec 2008 4:14 pm?
> Subject: RE: Draft for IPC-4101C?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> Werner,?
>?
>?
>?
> ??
>?
>?
>?
> I admit that we promised you consideration for the C Revision.? We do?
> need some testimonials for people that feel that it has value.?
>?
>?
>?
> ??
>?
>?
>?
> For sure your recipe makes sense and it does provide a guide to?
> lead-free assembly compatibility, however the materials picked by this?
> method are normally the higher Tg, higher priced and more specialized?
> FR-4.?
>?
>?
>?
> ??
>?
>?
>?
> Customers cannot always purchase?
> specification sheet 126 materials.?
>?
>?
>?
> ??
>?
>?
>?
> But I would be willing to listen to the?
> testimonials. ?It is not going to happen for this revision however.?
>?
>?
>?
> ??
>?
>?
>?
> Doug?
>?
>?
>?
> ??
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> From:?
> [log in to unmask] [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>?
> Sent: Monday, December 01, 2008?
> 5:32 PM?
>?
> To: [log in to unmask]
>?
> Cc: Sober, Doug; [log in to unmask];?
> [log in to unmask]
>?
> Subject: Re: Draft for IPC-4101C?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> ??
>?
>?
>?
> Hi Tom,?
>?
> I am rather disappointed to find that the STII-concept has not been?
> included in this draft. I was promised that the concept would get?
> serious consideration and be included in the C-revision 'if?
> appropriate'.?
>?
> Over 2 years have passed since I withdrew my NEGATIVE on the B-revision,?
> and from what I can tell from the meeting minutes absolutely nothing has?
> been done by the committee in this regard.?
>?
> The STII-concept has found favorable interest by users both in the USA?
> and Europe, with some interest expressed in Asia as well. Its?
> effectiveness is clearly evident, it does not take anything away from?
> any of the materials, it makes selection for suitability much easier,?
> and it combines the impact of the major parameters affecting PCB?
> survival/reliability.?
>?
> So, clearly, the STII-concept is appropriate.?
>?
> As this draft stands, it will receive a NEGATIVE from me.?
>?
>?
>?
> Regards,?
>?
> Werner Engelmaier?
>?
> Engelmaier Associates, L.C.?
>?
> Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting?
>?
> 7 Jasmine Run?
>?
> Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA?
>?
> Phone: 386-437-8747, Cell: 386-316-5904?
>?
> E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
>?
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++?
> The information contained in this electronic mail message, including any?
> attachments, is confidential and is protected by the Electronic?
> Communications Privacy Act, 18 U.S.C. Sections 2510-2522.?
> Unauthorized use, copying or distribution of this message, including any?
> attachments, is strictly prohibited and may be unlawful. If this?
> message was sent to you in error, please notify the sender by return?
> email and destroy this message, including any attachments.?
> ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++?
>?
>?
>
>?
>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> -------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV?
> 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following?
> text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree To?
> temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send:?
> SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search previous postings at:?
> http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site?
> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional?
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100?
> ext.2815?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> -------?
>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> --?
> Goodrich Control Systems Limited.?
> Registered Office: Stratford Road, Solihull, West Midlands, B90 4LA.?
> Registered in England No. 04482312.?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> --?
>?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> -------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV?
> 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following?
> text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree To?
> temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send:?
> SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL) Search previous postings at:?
> http://listserv.ipc.org/archives Please visit IPC web site?
> http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional?
> information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100?
> ext.2815?
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> -------?
>?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d?
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in?
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree?
> To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)?
> Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives?
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815?
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------?
> ?
--
? Karl Sauter?
? Principal Engineer, PCB Technology?
? Sun Microsystems, Inc.?
? 4120 Network Circle (Bldg. 12)?
? Santa Clara, CA 95054?
? Phone: (408) 276-3207?
?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d?
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in?
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree?
To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)?
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives?
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------Leadfee Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Leadfree
To temporarily stop/(start) delivery of Leadree for vacation breaks send: SET Leadfree NOMAIL/(MAIL)
Search previous postings at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
