I do not normally resond to something like this but everybody has a
different view point, my Toyota is just 2 years old, has 51,000 miles on it
and has only needed tires and front brakes.
My last Chevy had three A/C low pressure valves, the wires fall off the A/C
controls, the seat belt light stick on, the water pump replaced, and the
clutch for the fan freeze solid (after a trip to the dealer where the
Service manager took time form his busy schedule repairing cars to give me a
letter from Chevy saying that the cycling I was observing was normal, 20
miles later it froze solid and I limped back to the dealer) by this mileage.
I get 26-29 miles to the gallon versus 16-18 before with Chevy, and that gas
mileage is on a engine with 269 HP in a Toyota and it is fun to drive .
My previous car a Ford had a ignition module issue that was not admittted.
The engine would die and could not be started, replacing the module always
solved the issue. I had sent Ford a letter asking the mean time between
failure so I could plan ahead and replace the next module and got back a
letter that told me my car was out of warranty. Only years later did they
disclose that they knew that they had a problem!
Guess what sorry Detriot, I do not plan to go back to Detriot iron!!!!!!
--------------------------------------------------
From: "John Goulet" <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 6:36 AM
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable - car topic
> Your paying more than you think because if you have to buy one every 3
> years at a loss of at least 8K then you threw away 32K plus the fire and
> theft is higher on those cars. You avoid the mechanical problems on those
> cars because at 4-5 years the expensive things like the computer, water
> pump and the other things. As the unibody starts to rust the whole car
> becomes unsafe. The basic engine is good. My Toyota Supra engine died from
> metal fatique, the subaru couldn't be lifted up, the floor and seats went
> up on the lift but the wheeels and sides stayed on the floor. They had to
> throw it out. The last Subaru my wife leased was good for the 4 wheel
> drive but was like riding in a golf cart, the leather seats were hard and
> uncomfortable, the noise from the wheels and transmission on this new car
> was terrible. Of course if all you drive are these kind of cars then you
> wouldn't know it until you drive a real car like a Caddy CTS or the full
> size caddy or Mecury MKS. The Nissans a!
> nd Suba
> rus cars were rust buckets. I've kept all my American cars 66 Mailbu, 74
> Mercury for 7-8 years and the people I sold them too ran them for many
> more years. I sold my 1985 Chevy Blaiser to my painter who as of last week
> had close to 200K miles and running fine. My current GMC SUV year 2000 and
> Cadillac CTS also year 2000 are running fantastic with only a brake job
> and no rust! These cars ride so much better than those light little
> foreign cars that it is not even close. The money we save buy keeping them
> we can use to pay cash when the market or good opportunity arises.
> PS my 1969 Caddy convertible and 1969 Buick GrandSport are running great
> as well and needed paint only because of the acid rain. All the old
> foreign cars have rusted away many years ago.
>
>
> -------------- Original message --------------
> From: "Haynes, Kim" <[log in to unmask]>
>
>> I am going to say something that some of you probably will not like, but
>> here
>> goes. I have been buying Japanese cars for the last 12 years. The main
>> reason
>> is that every time some one hits and destroys one while my wife or I are
>> driving, no injuries occur. And after 3 years or so on the road, the car
>> had
>> enough value left to pay off the remaining loan amount and about 20% of a
>> new
>> one. Even after the insurance company shafted me as best they could.
>> After 3
>> years of use the car still had most of its value. A similar GM or Ford
>> product
>> will lose almost that much value when I drive it onto the street to take
>> it
>> home.
>>
>> The last new American (GM) car I bought had problems from the very
>> beginning. I
>> took the car back after a few weeks because if you stopped at a red light
>> or
>> stop sign or even went really slow crossing a railroad track, the engine
>> would
>> die. It would restart, but I think it should run until I turn it off. I
>> told
>> the shop that it happened when the car was warm and it never happened
>> when the
>> engine was cold. I was told, "We can not find any thing wrong". After
>> several
>> all day trips to the shop and escalation to the dealership's owner, I
>> complained
>> to the regional manager and was told that dealers run their own shops and
>> there
>> was nothing he could do about their service. So, I gave up.
>>
>> I took the car to a mechanic that my dad used when I next went for a
>> visit. I
>> left the car with him and described the problem. He took the car for a
>> drive
>> and then he removed the jet from the carb and drilled them a little bit
>> bigger.
>> He tried to get larger spec jets, but the dealer said there was no
>> increased
>> size jet available. He had the car a total of 3 hours and I never had
>> another
>> problem with the car dying at slow down.
>>
>> I consider this a problem with management and the business philosophy
>> from the
>> top as well as shoddy workmanship in the design shops and production
>> lines. I
>> will never buy another new American made car. Some problems I could
>> forgive but
>> total disrespect and their refusal to fix a problem, that I suspect was
>> fairly
>> common, can not be forgiven or forgotten. I have also spread this story
>> as far
>> and wide as I can, especially when I am asked why I bought another
>> Japanese car.
>> Why don't you buy American?
>>
>> I have never had problems with either the Honda or Toyota dealers. They
>> are
>> always polite, listen, and get the job done correctly, the first time. I
>> have
>> not noticed the American car trait, in Hondas or Toyotas, where you need
>> to take
>> it back in a month or so to get the little stuff straightened out and
>> tightened
>> down. The service is not any more expensive than the Big-3, and attitude
>> goes a
>> long way, both bad ones and good ones.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Kim Haynes
>> Interface and Clock Products
>> High-Speed Serial Link Applications
>> Texas Instruments, Inc.
>> 214-567-2057 Telephone
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Neil Maloney
>> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:24 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable (NTC)
>>
>> A number of years ago, I visited the GM assembly plant in Janesville, WI.
>> I work
>> for a small OEM and my job that day was to upgrade about 35 broadband
>> devices
>> scattered about the factory and assembly line. I was working with an
>> on-site
>> contractor (non-union) who had worked at this plant for 5 years. The job
>> entailed driving in a golf cart to each device, shutting it down, opening
>> it up,
>> replacing a plug-in PA, closing the unit and powering it up again. It
>> might have
>> taken maybe 2 1/2 hours to do the whole job, but because of three letters
>> (UAW)
>> it took more than 9 hours.
>>
>> The rules said that we needed to have a union "electrician" with us at
>> all
>> times- for the sole purpose of removing /attaching the screw-on 'F'
>> broadband
>> connector on the modem. During those 9 hours, I saw our assigned
>> 'electrician'
>> twice- each time for a few minutes, both times he was inebriated and
>> smelled
>> strongly of gin. As I travelled through the plant, every fourth person I
>> saw
>> on the line was either asleep in a chair, eating or reading a newspaper.
>> This
>> also included supervisors. Every hundred feet or so was an open 'break
>> area'
>> consisting of a coffeepot and a TV set aimed so that the workers could
>> watch it
>> from their work stations- each one tuned to a soap opera or talk show. I
>> saw
>> workers jamming and forcing parts together, and throwing their food
>> crumbs and
>> trash into the vehicles as they worked on the line.
>> I wondered why the contractor made my wear a hard hat in the building,
>> but
>> the mystery was solved when the occasional small part (nut, bolt, bracket
>> or
>> block of wood) came flying in our general direction from the assembly
>> line as we
>> drove along. Some workers had pretty good aim, as there were some direct
>> hits.
>> Once I left my tool bag unatended in our cart, and it took 10 minutes to
>> find
>> it - stuffed into a trash can about 50 feet from where I had left it.
>>
>> I saw almost every foot of assembly line in that factory, from the
>> chassis
>> assembly to the paint shop, to final assembly and Q.C. and I will tell
>> you now
>> that 1/3 of the money you spend for a brand new GM truck goes to pay for
>> inefficency and waste. It cured me of ever wanting to buy a brand new car
>> or
>> truck. I am not surprised that GM is closing the Janesville plant.
>> I see no reason for the government to 'bail out' an inherenty bad system.
>> IMO
>> the whole American auto industry needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from
>> the
>> ground up.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet on behalf of Bev Christian
>> Sent: Sat 11/22/2008 11:47 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Cc:
>> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable
>>
>>
>>
>> Inge,
>> Read an interesting article in the last couple of days. It was comparing
>> the U s car situation with what happened to the British car industry.
>> There when
>> things got bad they amalgamated them all into British Leyland, things
>> continued
>> to deteriorate, the Brit gov pumped in umpteen millions of taxpayers
>> money, the
>> company needed yet more, then the Brit public said enough is enough and
>> it was
>> sold off picemeal - Jaguar, Rover, Austin minis, etc. They are now owned
>> by the
>> Germans, Chinese and Indians, but cars are still being made in England.
>> Are we
>> about to repeat history?
>> Bev
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: TechNet
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Sent: Sat Nov 22 12:39:03 2008
>> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable
>>
>> GM and Ford reminds of a big boa constrictor which swallowed an entire
>> cow
>> and is hence so heavy, slow and immobile, that it can do nothing when
>> the
>> big caterpillar comes roaring, Let's hope that the later runs out of
>> petrol, and that the former will finally wake up after a long digestion,
>> also that he learnt that it's far better to eat many small portions and
>> remain fast and strong. I have a feeling that the roles will shift. If
>> the
>> japanese appetite goes on like today, THEY will be the big fat one and
>> will
>> not be fast enough to run when a new scenario suddenly forms. What this
>> could be, I've no idea, but maybe the american car makers at that time
>> have
>> the best conditions of the two.
>> (Myself, I don't like Toyota cars. They are good, no doubt, but they
>> are
>> too 'plasty' and reminds more of large scale Dinky Toys than real
>> cars.).
>>
>> Yesterday, I saw a one hour movie about Ronald Reagan. Wow! I mean N/S
>> RR. I
>> would like to spend one day onboard that carrier. Not to see nuclear
>> weapons, guns and missiles, but to see the engines, the steam catapults,
>> the
>> large elevators, the kitchens, see the enormous radar equipments, see
>> how
>> 5,000 people can live on a boat etc. Just wonder if NG are planning
>> another
>> one, because Ronald Reagan was designed 20 years ago. She (he?) is built
>> for
>> working another 30 years. The cost was 20 billions USD. It's all crazy
>> of
>> course, but I can't help being speechless when I see such creations.
>>
>> Inge
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Ian Hanna"
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:17 PM
>> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable
>>
>>
>> Why not assume that the car companies themselves are designed and built
>> with attention to design detail and quality of execution that
>> corresponds to their respective vehicles...perhaps a more robust design
>> is in order
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Syed Ahmad
>> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:56 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable
>>
>>
>> Mitt Romney wrote in yesterday's NYT about the $2k extra labor cost. But
>> why the US automakers cannot compete in the cars which they build
>> offshore with equivalent Japanese cars built on-shore?
>>
>> Should $2k make much difference anyhow when people on the street are
>> sold on monthly payment and not on the price of the vehicle?
>>
>> American automakers have the advantage that many Americans buy
>> American-made otherwise their sales could be even lower.
>>
>> Someone on NPR was saying that Japanese have much less number of dealers
>> so they can weather ups and downs better.
>>
>> 25 billion can buy 1 million $25k autos and 2 million $12k autos. Any
>> number in between the two should cover all employees of IPC members
>> companies and their friends. Only thing we need is a private jet for the
>> TechNet webmaster to go to DC and lobby.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete Houwen
>> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:03 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable
>>
>> It goes beyond the UAW for sure, but an interesting number:
>>
>> Hourly North American labor cost, GM: $81
>> Hourly North American labor cost, Toyota: $35
>>
>> There's about $2K extra in every GM (Ford, Chrysler) car for labor. All
>> else
>> being equal, consumers will spend $2K less. So, Detroit needs to cut
>> corners,
>> and still sell small cars at a loss just to compete, meaining they need
>> to sell
>> more high margin SUVs (still at that disadvantage with more cut corners)
>> to
>> make up for it. So some of those poor decisions and lowered quality are
>>
>> effectively a matter of unmanageable labor costs.
>>
>> And considering you can't incentivize the workers by firing the bad ones
>> and
>>
>> promoting the good ones, all you have are inspirational posters.
>>
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