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Subject:
From:
Neil Maloney <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Neil Maloney <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Mon, 24 Nov 2008 11:02:02 -0600
Content-Type:
text/plain
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text/plain (359 lines)
It is truly ironic that every labor union member who told me the oft
quoted phrase "They're taking the food out of our mouths!" was
overweight to the point of obesity.  This includes the four years I
spent as an unwilling member of the teamsters' union.

Q: Why does the Teamsters' union have a horsehead on its official logo?

A: Because the horse is able to sleep while standing up. 


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joe Fjelstad
Sent: Sunday, November 23, 2008 11:20 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable (NTC)


That is a sobering story but the roots of the problem seem to go back
many 
years. 
 
I worked on an American automobile assembly line the summer after  high 
school in the 60s. Breaks were mandatory and boring for me. The first
(and  last) 
time I tried to go back to work early from a break I was threatened  by
others 
on my line. The wages were excellent and I needed the job so I  did not
buck 
the system but it still felt somehow wrong. 
 
It is dissapointing that the American (aka Protestant) work  ethic can
be and 
has been undermined in some unions. That said, unions played an
important 
role at one time in the US and elsewhere and they still have  importance
in some 
regions to prevent abuse of the workers but they  are now two edged
swords 
that can cut both ways and sometimes (too  often?) are blinded to
enlightened 
self interest with the results as is now  coming into evidence. 
 
And so it goes...
 
Joe
 
 
In a message dated 11/22/2008 1:25:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time,  
[log in to unmask] writes:

A number  of years ago, I visited the GM assembly plant in Janesville,
WI. I 
work for a  small OEM and my job that day was to upgrade about 35
broadband 
devices  scattered about the factory and assembly line. I was working
with an 
on-site  contractor (non-union) who had worked at this plant for 5
years. The 
job  entailed driving in a golf cart to each device, shutting it down,
opening 
it  up, replacing a plug-in PA, closing the unit and powering it up
again. It  
might have taken maybe 2 1/2 hours to do the whole job, but because of
three  
letters (UAW) it  took more than 9 hours. 

The rules said that we  needed to have a union "electrician" with us at
all 
times- for the sole  purpose of removing /attaching the screw-on 'F'
broadband 
connector on the  modem. During those 9 hours, I saw our assigned 
'electrician' twice- each time  for a few minutes, both times he was
inebriated and 
smelled strongly of  gin.   As I travelled through the plant, every
fourth person I 
saw  on the line was either asleep in a chair, eating or reading a
newspaper.  
 This also included supervisors.  Every hundred feet or so was an open  
'break area' consisting of a coffeepot and a TV set aimed so that the
workers  
could watch it from their work stations- each one tuned to a soap opera
or  talk 
show.  I saw workers jamming and forcing parts together, and  throwing
their 
food crumbs and trash into the vehicles as they worked on the  line. I
wondered why the contractor made my wear a hard hat in  the building,
but 
the mystery was solved when the occasional small part (nut,  bolt,
bracket or 
block of wood) came flying in our general direction from the  assembly
line as 
we drove along.  Some workers had pretty good aim, as  there were some
direct 
hits.  Once I left my tool bag unatended in our  cart, and it took 10
minutes 
to find  it - stuffed into a trash can about  50 feet from where I had
left 
it. 

I saw almost every foot of assembly  line in that factory, from the
chassis 
assembly to the paint shop, to final  assembly and Q.C. and I will tell
you now 
that 1/3 of the money you spend for  a brand new GM truck goes to pay
for 
inefficency and waste.   It  cured me of ever wanting to buy a brand new
car or 
truck.  I am not  surprised that GM is closing the Janesville plant. I
see no reason for the  government to 'bail out' an inherenty bad system.

IMO the whole American auto  industry needs to be dismantled and rebuilt
from 
the ground up. 

-----Original Message----- 
From: TechNet on behalf of  Bev Christian 
Sent: Sat 11/22/2008 11:47 AM 
To: [log in to unmask] 
Cc: 
Subject:  Re: [TN] A Modern Parable



Inge,
Read an interesting article in the last couple  of days. It was
comparing the 
U s car situation with what happened to the  British car industry. There
when 
things got bad they amalgamated them all into  British Leyland, things 
continued to deteriorate, the Brit gov pumped in  umpteen millions of
taxpayers 
money, the company needed yet more, then the  Brit public said enough is
enough 
and it was sold off picemeal - Jaguar,  Rover, Austin minis, etc. They
are now 
owned by the Germans, Chinese and  Indians, but cars are still being
made in 
England. Are we about to repeat  history?
Bev

-----  Original Message -----
From: TechNet  <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]  <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Sat Nov 22 12:39:03  2008
Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable

GM and Ford reminds of a big boa constrictor which swallowed  an entire
cow and is hence so heavy,  slow and immobile,  that it can do nothing
when the big caterpillar comes  roaring,  Let's hope that the later runs
out of petrol,  and that the former will finally wake up after a long
digestion, also that he learnt that  it's far better to eat many small
portions and remain fast and strong. I have a feeling that  the roles
will shift. If the japanese appetite goes on like  today, THEY will be
the big fat one and will not be fast  enough to run when a new scenario
suddenly forms. What this could be, I've no idea, but maybe the american
car makers at that time  have the best conditions of the two. (Myself, I
don't like Toyota cars. They are good, no doubt, but  they  are too
'plasty' and reminds more of large scale Dinky Toys  than real cars.).

Yesterday, I saw a one  hour movie about Ronald Reagan. Wow! I mean N/S
RR. I would  like to spend one day onboard that carrier. Not to see
nuclear weapons, guns and missiles, but to see the engines, the steam
catapults, the large elevators, the kitchens, see the  enormous radar
equipments, see how 5,000 people can live on a  boat etc. Just wonder if
NG are planning another one, because  Ronald Reagan was designed 20
years ago. She (he?) is built for working another 30 years. The cost was
20 billions USD.  It's all  crazy of course, but I can't help being
speechless when I see  such creations.

Inge


----- Original Message -----
From: "Ian Hanna" <[log in to unmask]>
To:  <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:17  PM
Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable


Why not assume that the car companies  themselves are designed and built
with attention to design  detail and quality of execution that
corresponds to their  respective  vehicles...perhaps a more robust
design is  in order


-----Original  Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf  Of Syed Ahmad
Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:56  PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] A  Modern Parable


Mitt  Romney wrote in yesterday's NYT about the $2k extra labor cost.
But why the US automakers cannot compete in the cars which they  build
offshore with equivalent Japanese cars built  on-shore?

Should $2k make much difference  anyhow when people on the street are
sold on monthly payment  and not on the price of the vehicle?

American automakers have the advantage that many Americans buy
American-made otherwise their sales could be even lower.

Someone on NPR was saying that Japanese have much  less number of
dealers so they can weather ups and downs  better.

25 billion can buy 1 million $25k  autos and 2 million $12k autos. Any
number in between the two  should cover all employees of IPC members
companies and their  friends. Only thing we need is a private jet for
the TechNet  webmaster to go to DC and lobby.

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet  [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete Houwen
Sent:  Friday, November 21, 2008 12:03 PM
To:  [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable

It goes beyond the UAW for sure, but an interesting  number:

Hourly North American labor cost,  GM: $81
Hourly North American labor cost, Toyota:  $35

There's about $2K extra in every GM  (Ford, Chrysler) car for labor.
All else being equal, consumers will spend $2K less.  So, Detroit needs
to  cut corners, and still sell small cars at a  loss just to compete,
meaining they need to sell more high margin SUVs (still at that
disadvantage with more cut  corners) to make up for it.  So some of
those poor decisions and lowered quality are

effectively a matter of unmanageable labor costs.

And considering you can't incentivize the workers by firing  the bad
ones and

promoting  the good ones, all you have are inspirational posters.

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