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From:
John Goulet <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Date:
Sun, 23 Nov 2008 13:36:22 +0000
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Your paying more than you think because if you have to buy one every 3 years at a loss of at least 8K then you threw away 32K plus the fire and theft is higher on those cars. You avoid the mechanical problems on those cars because at 4-5 years the expensive things like the computer, water pump and the other things. As the unibody starts to rust the whole car becomes unsafe. The basic engine is good. My Toyota Supra engine died from metal fatique, the subaru couldn't be lifted up, the floor and seats went up on the lift  but the wheeels and sides stayed on the floor. They had to throw it out. The last Subaru my wife leased was good for the  4 wheel drive but was like riding in a golf cart, the leather seats were hard and uncomfortable, the noise from the wheels and transmission on this new car was terrible. Of course if all you drive are these kind of cars then you wouldn't know it until you drive a real car like a Caddy CTS or the full size caddy or Mecury MKS. The Nissans a!
nd Suba
rus cars were rust buckets. I've kept all my American cars 66 Mailbu, 74 Mercury for 7-8 years and the  people I sold them too ran them for many more years. I sold my 1985 Chevy Blaiser to my painter who as of last week had close to 200K miles and running fine. My current GMC SUV year 2000 and Cadillac CTS also year 2000 are running fantastic with only a brake job and no rust! These cars ride so much better than those light little foreign cars that it is not even close. The money we save buy keeping them we can use to pay cash when the market or good opportunity arises. 
PS my 1969 Caddy convertible and 1969 Buick GrandSport are running great as well and needed paint only because of the  acid rain. All the old foreign cars have rusted away many years ago.
 

-------------- Original message -------------- 
From: "Haynes, Kim" <[log in to unmask]> 

> I am going to say something that some of you probably will not like, but here 
> goes. I have been buying Japanese cars for the last 12 years. The main reason 
> is that every time some one hits and destroys one while my wife or I are 
> driving, no injuries occur. And after 3 years or so on the road, the car had 
> enough value left to pay off the remaining loan amount and about 20% of a new 
> one. Even after the insurance company shafted me as best they could. After 3 
> years of use the car still had most of its value. A similar GM or Ford product 
> will lose almost that much value when I drive it onto the street to take it 
> home. 
> 
> The last new American (GM) car I bought had problems from the very beginning. I 
> took the car back after a few weeks because if you stopped at a red light or 
> stop sign or even went really slow crossing a railroad track, the engine would 
> die. It would restart, but I think it should run until I turn it off. I told 
> the shop that it happened when the car was warm and it never happened when the 
> engine was cold. I was told, "We can not find any thing wrong". After several 
> all day trips to the shop and escalation to the dealership's owner, I complained 
> to the regional manager and was told that dealers run their own shops and there 
> was nothing he could do about their service. So, I gave up. 
> 
> I took the car to a mechanic that my dad used when I next went for a visit. I 
> left the car with him and described the problem. He took the car for a drive 
> and then he removed the jet from the carb and drilled them a little bit bigger. 
> He tried to get larger spec jets, but the dealer said there was no increased 
> size jet available. He had the car a total of 3 hours and I never had another 
> problem with the car dying at slow down. 
> 
> I consider this a problem with management and the business philosophy from the 
> top as well as shoddy workmanship in the design shops and production lines. I 
> will never buy another new American made car. Some problems I could forgive but 
> total disrespect and their refusal to fix a problem, that I suspect was fairly 
> common, can not be forgiven or forgotten. I have also spread this story as far 
> and wide as I can, especially when I am asked why I bought another Japanese car. 
> Why don't you buy American? 
> 
> I have never had problems with either the Honda or Toyota dealers. They are 
> always polite, listen, and get the job done correctly, the first time. I have 
> not noticed the American car trait, in Hondas or Toyotas, where you need to take 
> it back in a month or so to get the little stuff straightened out and tightened 
> down. The service is not any more expensive than the Big-3, and attitude goes a 
> long way, both bad ones and good ones. 
> 
> Regards, 
> Kim Haynes 
> Interface and Clock Products 
> High-Speed Serial Link Applications 
> Texas Instruments, Inc. 
> 214-567-2057 Telephone 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Neil Maloney 
> Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 3:24 PM 
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable (NTC) 
> 
> A number of years ago, I visited the GM assembly plant in Janesville, WI. I work 
> for a small OEM and my job that day was to upgrade about 35 broadband devices 
> scattered about the factory and assembly line. I was working with an on-site 
> contractor (non-union) who had worked at this plant for 5 years. The job 
> entailed driving in a golf cart to each device, shutting it down, opening it up, 
> replacing a plug-in PA, closing the unit and powering it up again. It might have 
> taken maybe 2 1/2 hours to do the whole job, but because of three letters (UAW) 
> it took more than 9 hours. 
> 
> The rules said that we needed to have a union "electrician" with us at all 
> times- for the sole purpose of removing /attaching the screw-on 'F' broadband 
> connector on the modem. During those 9 hours, I saw our assigned 'electrician' 
> twice- each time for a few minutes, both times he was inebriated and smelled 
> strongly of gin. As I travelled through the plant, every fourth person I saw 
> on the line was either asleep in a chair, eating or reading a newspaper. This 
> also included supervisors. Every hundred feet or so was an open 'break area' 
> consisting of a coffeepot and a TV set aimed so that the workers could watch it 
> from their work stations- each one tuned to a soap opera or talk show. I saw 
> workers jamming and forcing parts together, and throwing their food crumbs and 
> trash into the vehicles as they worked on the line. 
> I wondered why the contractor made my wear a hard hat in the building, but 
> the mystery was solved when the occasional small part (nut, bolt, bracket or 
> block of wood) came flying in our general direction from the assembly line as we 
> drove along. Some workers had pretty good aim, as there were some direct hits. 
> Once I left my tool bag unatended in our cart, and it took 10 minutes to find 
> it - stuffed into a trash can about 50 feet from where I had left it. 
> 
> I saw almost every foot of assembly line in that factory, from the chassis 
> assembly to the paint shop, to final assembly and Q.C. and I will tell you now 
> that 1/3 of the money you spend for a brand new GM truck goes to pay for 
> inefficency and waste. It cured me of ever wanting to buy a brand new car or 
> truck. I am not surprised that GM is closing the Janesville plant. 
> I see no reason for the government to 'bail out' an inherenty bad system. IMO 
> the whole American auto industry needs to be dismantled and rebuilt from the 
> ground up. 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: TechNet on behalf of Bev Christian 
> Sent: Sat 11/22/2008 11:47 AM 
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Cc: 
> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable 
> 
> 
> 
> Inge, 
> Read an interesting article in the last couple of days. It was comparing 
> the U s car situation with what happened to the British car industry. There when 
> things got bad they amalgamated them all into British Leyland, things continued 
> to deteriorate, the Brit gov pumped in umpteen millions of taxpayers money, the 
> company needed yet more, then the Brit public said enough is enough and it was 
> sold off picemeal - Jaguar, Rover, Austin minis, etc. They are now owned by the 
> Germans, Chinese and Indians, but cars are still being made in England. Are we 
> about to repeat history? 
> Bev 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: TechNet 
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Sent: Sat Nov 22 12:39:03 2008 
> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable 
> 
> GM and Ford reminds of a big boa constrictor which swallowed an entire 
> cow 
> and is hence so heavy, slow and immobile, that it can do nothing when 
> the 
> big caterpillar comes roaring, Let's hope that the later runs out of 
> petrol, and that the former will finally wake up after a long digestion, 
> also that he learnt that it's far better to eat many small portions and 
> remain fast and strong. I have a feeling that the roles will shift. If 
> the 
> japanese appetite goes on like today, THEY will be the big fat one and 
> will 
> not be fast enough to run when a new scenario suddenly forms. What this 
> could be, I've no idea, but maybe the american car makers at that time 
> have 
> the best conditions of the two. 
> (Myself, I don't like Toyota cars. They are good, no doubt, but they 
> are 
> too 'plasty' and reminds more of large scale Dinky Toys than real 
> cars.). 
> 
> Yesterday, I saw a one hour movie about Ronald Reagan. Wow! I mean N/S 
> RR. I 
> would like to spend one day onboard that carrier. Not to see nuclear 
> weapons, guns and missiles, but to see the engines, the steam catapults, 
> the 
> large elevators, the kitchens, see the enormous radar equipments, see 
> how 
> 5,000 people can live on a boat etc. Just wonder if NG are planning 
> another 
> one, because Ronald Reagan was designed 20 years ago. She (he?) is built 
> for 
> working another 30 years. The cost was 20 billions USD. It's all crazy 
> of 
> course, but I can't help being speechless when I see such creations. 
> 
> Inge 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Ian Hanna" 
> To: 
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 1:17 PM 
> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable 
> 
> 
> Why not assume that the car companies themselves are designed and built 
> with attention to design detail and quality of execution that 
> corresponds to their respective vehicles...perhaps a more robust design 
> is in order 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Syed Ahmad 
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 3:56 PM 
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable 
> 
> 
> Mitt Romney wrote in yesterday's NYT about the $2k extra labor cost. But 
> why the US automakers cannot compete in the cars which they build 
> offshore with equivalent Japanese cars built on-shore? 
> 
> Should $2k make much difference anyhow when people on the street are 
> sold on monthly payment and not on the price of the vehicle? 
> 
> American automakers have the advantage that many Americans buy 
> American-made otherwise their sales could be even lower. 
> 
> Someone on NPR was saying that Japanese have much less number of dealers 
> so they can weather ups and downs better. 
> 
> 25 billion can buy 1 million $25k autos and 2 million $12k autos. Any 
> number in between the two should cover all employees of IPC members 
> companies and their friends. Only thing we need is a private jet for the 
> TechNet webmaster to go to DC and lobby. 
> 
> -----Original Message----- 
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Pete Houwen 
> Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 12:03 PM 
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Re: [TN] A Modern Parable 
> 
> It goes beyond the UAW for sure, but an interesting number: 
> 
> Hourly North American labor cost, GM: $81 
> Hourly North American labor cost, Toyota: $35 
> 
> There's about $2K extra in every GM (Ford, Chrysler) car for labor. All 
> else 
> being equal, consumers will spend $2K less. So, Detroit needs to cut 
> corners, 
> and still sell small cars at a loss just to compete, meaining they need 
> to sell 
> more high margin SUVs (still at that disadvantage with more cut corners) 
> to 
> make up for it. So some of those poor decisions and lowered quality are 
> 
> effectively a matter of unmanageable labor costs. 
> 
> And considering you can't incentivize the workers by firing the bad ones 
> and 
> 
> promoting the good ones, all you have are inspirational posters. 
> 
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