At 08:51 AM 9/26/2008, Mike Fenner wrote:
>I think the problem for those guys is that position is everything so design
>rules for such pragmatic considerations like 'can it be made' are not too
>high profile in their minds. And the problem for manufacturing is that
>rules/laws that ordinary people understand (Ohm's Law comes to mind for
>example) are suspended in RF, so they are definitely able to be in high
>priest mode when it comes to deciding right and wrong. Good gain over-rules
>everything.
>
>
>Regards
>
>Mike
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge
>Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:53 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice
>
>Ho-ho...shy and reserved. Well, maybe privately, but not in my profession.
>Guess how much I have lifted this question, not only to the sales
>department, but as high as to our company boss! The answer could be
>typically ' Inge, you are a funny one' or 'speak to the design engineers'
>or 'You are quite right, do something' . You are soooo right when you claim
>that RF packages are handled differently. We have been visited by various
>'saviours' who preach their messages to the staff, they swallow the bate and
>buy the consult's package and this is spread from top to ground. Can have
>different names. 'Concurrent engineering' or 'the golden waves' or
>whatever. Last spread prophecy is named 'Lean'. The sad thing is, that
>these academic products don't change people. After visiting the seances, had
>free lunches and got a diploma, everything returns to square one. RF designs
>and products remain 'mystic', 'superior to ordinary men' and 'belong to the
>leading edge technology'. RF engineering got an aura and immunity that can't
>be normalised. So, when the concept drops to the production, it's
>anticipated that we fix it. Sigh!...
>So...I have to solve a soldering problem, in which we have to solder
>advanced hermetic RF connectors to a package that is not hermetic at all!!
>Inge
>
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: "Eric CHRISTISON" <[log in to unmask]>
>To: <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:53 AM
>Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice
>
>
> > Well not really Richard but I was kind of expecting that answer.
> >
> > When my company designs new packages we have to design them to connect to
> > a board or a flex or both and not only do we have to design them with that
>
> > intent but we then have to demonstrate, through carrying out all sorts of
> > qualifications, that our customers can actually join them to
> > boards/flexes/whatever in the manner we meant them to be attached. If we
> > didn't do that then no one would buy our stuff. I think this is normal.
> >
> > Except when it comes to RF devices.
> >
> > I don't know what's different about them but in my experience most RF
> > devices are badly designed in every aspect apart from (perhaps) their RF
> > performance. It's as if the companies don't really care, perhaps because
> > they're often single source devices and folk have got no option but to use
>
> > them. It's a shame because if folk keep buying badly designed devices
> > other folk will keep selling them.
> >
> > Maybe Inge should be ringing up their technical sales department and
> > shouting at them a lot, but I guess he's too shy and reserved to do that.
> >
> > Regards,
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Stadem, Richard D. wrote:
> >>> Eric,
> >>> You are just kidding, right?
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric CHRISTISON
> >>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:35 AM
> >>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>> Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice
> >>>
> >>> Inge,
> >>>
> >>> Don't the people who designed this thing have some idea how it should be
> >>> soldered?
> >>>
> >>> Regards,
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thayer, Wayne wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Hi Inge!
> >>>>
> >>>> Nickel is pretty lossy, so you could possibly heat with electrical
> >>>> energy. Still lots of current required--probably on the order of
> >>>> 100A/mm of nickel. Nickel doesn't conduct heat real well either, so
> >>>> you would want to drive the current pretty close to where the solder
> >>>> needs to be melted. I'll bet a few days of playing with an arc welding
>
> >>>> power supply would get you a process. Or you could just use a
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> car battery and some jumper cables and see what happens!
> >>>>
> >>>> Problem I see with this technique might be package warpage due to
> >>>> differential coeff of expansion and the local heat, similar to problems
>
> >>>> of using a torch, but the electrical would have much better
> >>>>
> >>> control.
> >>>
> >>>> Wayne Thayer
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hernefjord Ingemar
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:46 AM
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike,
> >>>>
> >>>> THAT was new to me! Good start, I'd say, many thanks. Hope our machine
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> can manage 260 C.
> >>>>
> >>>> Inge
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Sewell
> >>>> Sent: den 24 september 2008 16:33
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice
> >>>>
> >>>> Inge,
> >>>>
> >>>> Galden makes fluids that go to 260C...
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.solvaysolexis.com/static/wma/pdf/9/7/7/0/Galden%20VPS.pdf
> >>>>
> >>>> Mike
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hernefjord Ingemar
> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:26 AM
> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
> >>>> Subject: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice
> >>>>
> >>>> TNetters godday.
> >>>>
> >>>> Target is very large metal packages with bright nickel finish. Imagine
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> soldering hermetic feedtrues. Nickel needs higher temperature and
> >>>> longer exposure time than copper, silver, gold and other metals. Vapour
>
> >>>> phase soldering is maximum 218 Centigrades, which I believe is not high
>
> >>>> enough. Iron soldering is not practical for launches. IR oven
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> could be an idea if we add protection gas. Hot gas stations
> >>>> (Nitrogen)seem to be too lame. Resistance soldering not tested, unknown
>
> >>>> for SMA. Torch heard of, ought to be impractical, will burn flux and
> >>>> miscolor package. Laser soldering not practised.
> >>>>
> >>>> Anyone out there with experience from this kind of soldering?
> >>>>
> >>>> Inge
> >>>>
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> >>
> >> --
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> >> Mechanical Engineer
> >> Consumer & Micro group
> >> Imaging Division
> >>
> >> STMicroelectronics (R&D) Ltd
> >> 33 Pinkhill
> >> Edinburgh EH12 7BF
> >> United Kingdom
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> > --
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> > Mechanical Engineer
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> > 33 Pinkhill
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> > United Kingdom
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