Good idea on heat gun. The wash and dry out would need to be very good with
that type of flux. 
Vapour phase is not restricted to 218C, there are higher BP liquids
available,
Consider what solder alloys carefully if you are later to be hit with
corrosion testing like salt fog, they may fail at least
visually/aesthetically, or not accept plating. If in doubt (and you can) use
gold tin as that is proof against just about every thing. High leads will
most likely blacken. Above 300C you are pretty well out of soft solder world
into silver alloys/braze.

Yes on RF! 
I think the problem for those guys is that position is everything so design
rules for such pragmatic considerations like 'can it be made' are not too
high profile in their minds. And the problem for manufacturing is that
rules/laws that ordinary people understand  (Ohm's Law comes to mind for
example) are suspended in RF, so they are definitely able to be in high
priest mode when it comes to deciding right and wrong. Good gain over-rules
everything.


Regards 

Mike


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Inge
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 6:53 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice

Ho-ho...shy and reserved. Well, maybe privately, but not in my profession. 
Guess how much I have lifted this question, not only to the sales
department, but as high as to our company boss! The answer could be
typically ' Inge, you are a funny one'  or 'speak to the design engineers' 
or 'You are quite right, do something' . You are soooo right when you claim
that  RF packages are handled differently. We have been visited by various
'saviours' who preach their messages to the staff, they swallow the bate and
buy the consult's package and this is spread from top to ground. Can have
different names.  'Concurrent engineering' or 'the golden waves' or
whatever. Last spread prophecy is named 'Lean'.  The sad thing is, that
these academic products don't change people. After visiting the seances, had
free lunches and got a diploma, everything returns to square one. RF designs
and products remain 'mystic', 'superior to ordinary men' and 'belong to the
leading edge technology'. RF engineering got an aura and immunity that can't
be normalised.  So, when the concept drops to the production, it's
anticipated that we fix it.  Sigh!...
So...I have to solve a soldering problem, in which we have to solder
advanced hermetic RF connectors to a package that is not hermetic at all!!
Inge


----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric CHRISTISON" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, September 25, 2008 9:53 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice


> Well not really Richard but I was kind of expecting that answer.
>
> When my company designs new packages we have to design them to connect to 
> a board or a flex or both and not only do we have to design them with that

> intent but we then have to demonstrate, through carrying out all sorts of 
> qualifications, that our customers can actually join them to 
> boards/flexes/whatever in the manner we meant them to be attached. If we 
> didn't do that then no one would buy our stuff. I think this is normal.
>
> Except when it comes to RF devices.
>
> I don't know what's different about them but in my experience most RF 
> devices are badly designed in every aspect apart from (perhaps) their RF 
> performance. It's as if the companies don't really care, perhaps because 
> they're often single source devices and folk have got no option but to use

> them. It's a shame because if folk keep buying badly designed devices 
> other folk will keep selling them.
>
> Maybe Inge should be ringing up their technical sales department and 
> shouting at them a lot, but I guess he's too shy and reserved to do that.
>
> Regards,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Stadem, Richard D. wrote:
>>> Eric,
>>> You are just kidding, right?
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric CHRISTISON
>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:35 AM
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice
>>>
>>> Inge,
>>>
>>> Don't the people who designed this thing have some idea how it should be
>>> soldered?
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thayer, Wayne wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Inge!
>>>>
>>>> Nickel is pretty lossy, so you could possibly heat with electrical 
>>>> energy.  Still lots of current required--probably on the order of 
>>>> 100A/mm of nickel.  Nickel doesn't conduct heat real well either, so 
>>>> you would want to drive the current pretty close to where the solder 
>>>> needs to be melted.  I'll bet a few days of playing with an arc welding

>>>> power supply would get you a process.  Or you could just use a
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> car battery and some jumper cables and see what happens!
>>>>
>>>> Problem I see with this technique might be package warpage due to 
>>>> differential coeff of expansion and the local heat, similar to problems

>>>> of using a torch, but the electrical would have much better
>>>>
>>> control.
>>>
>>>> Wayne Thayer
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hernefjord Ingemar
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 10:46 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice
>>>>
>>>> Mike,
>>>>
>>>> THAT was new to me! Good start, I'd say, many thanks. Hope our machine
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> can manage 260 C.
>>>>
>>>> Inge
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Sewell
>>>> Sent: den 24 september 2008 16:33
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice
>>>>
>>>> Inge,
>>>>
>>>> Galden makes fluids that go to 260C...
>>>>
>>>> http://www.solvaysolexis.com/static/wma/pdf/9/7/7/0/Galden%20VPS.pdf
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hernefjord Ingemar
>>>> Sent: Wednesday, September 24, 2008 9:26 AM
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: [TN] Soldering SMA to heavy RF packages, need advice
>>>>
>>>>  TNetters godday.
>>>>
>>>> Target is very large metal packages with bright nickel finish. Imagine
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> soldering hermetic feedtrues. Nickel needs higher temperature and 
>>>> longer exposure time than copper, silver, gold and other metals. Vapour

>>>> phase soldering is maximum 218 Centigrades, which I believe is not high

>>>> enough. Iron soldering is not practical for launches. IR oven
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> could be an idea if we add protection gas. Hot gas stations 
>>>> (Nitrogen)seem to be too lame. Resistance soldering not tested, unknown

>>>> for SMA. Torch heard of, ought to be impractical, will burn flux and 
>>>> miscolor package. Laser soldering not practised.
>>>>
>>>> Anyone out there with experience from this kind of soldering?
>>>>
>>>> Inge
>>>>
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>>> --
>>> Eric Christison Msc
>>> Mechanical Engineer
>>> Consumer & Micro group
>>> Imaging Division
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>>> STMicroelectronics (R&D) Ltd
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>>
>> -- 
>> Eric Christison Msc
>> Mechanical Engineer
>> Consumer & Micro group
>> Imaging Division
>>
>> STMicroelectronics (R&D) Ltd
>> 33 Pinkhill
>> Edinburgh EH12 7BF
>> United Kingdom
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>
> -- 
> Eric Christison Msc
> Mechanical Engineer
> Consumer & Micro group
> Imaging Division
>
> STMicroelectronics (R&D) Ltd
> 33 Pinkhill
> Edinburgh EH12 7BF
> United Kingdom
>
> Tel: +44 (0)131 336 6165
> Fax: + 44 (0)131 336 6001
>
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