Here's a couple of interesting links about the Xbox 360 debacle. The
first one is a confidential interview with a person that worked for
Microsoft in the Xbox 360 project.
http://blog.seattlepi.nwsource.com/digitaljoystick/archives/129866.asp
And below are links to high-res photos of the Xbox motherboards. The
first is the original, the second link is to what they call the "Elite".
You'll notice the bonding of the BGA's that John was talking about:
http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/news/images/xbox-360-elite/360_original_mo
bo.jpg
http://www.llamma.com/xbox360/news/images/xbox-360-elite/360_elite_mobo.
jpg
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Burke
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 9:44 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [LF] AW: [RoHSUSAPushback] FW: [tinwhiskers] IPC expresses
concerns on possible ROHS revisions
OK got to go, did a fast search look here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems
Quote from above:
The game console heats up during use, and given enough time, the
temperature inside can reach very high levels due to insufficient
cooling. Because of the way the Xbox 360 is constructed, this may result
in stresses building up between the delicate ball grid array
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ball_grid_array> solder
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder> joints of the CPU and GPU and the
motherboard <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motherboard> , causing them to
break. The problem is exacerbated by the specific type of lead-free
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solder#Lead-free_solder> solder used, a
type which is more brittle than the older tin/lead solder that was used
in the past and the GPU's location directly underneath the DVD drive.
[28]
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems#cite_note-ihs-
27#c
ite_note-ihs-27>
German computer magazine c't <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%27t> , in
an article titled "Jede dritte stirbt den Hitzetod" (every third one
dies of heat), published in July 2006, blames the problems primarily on
the use of the wrong type of lead-free solder, a type that when exposed
to elevated temperatures for extended periods of time becomes brittle
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brittleness> and can develop hair-line
cracks <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatigue_(material)> that are
almost irreparable.[
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xbox_360_technical_problems#cite_note-ct-2
8#ci
te_note-ct-28>
John Burke
(408) 515 4992
_____
From: John Burke [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2008 7:33 AM
To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask];
'Henning Leidecker'; 'Brusse, Jay A. (GSFC-560.0)[QSS]'
Cc: 'SMART Group smart-e-link'; '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)';
'TechNet E-Mail Forum'
Subject: RE: RE: AW: [RoHSUSAPushback] FW: [tinwhiskers] IPC expresses
concerns on possible ROHS revisions
The solder joints were indeed overstressed due to thermal
expansion/contraction of the chip leading to early fatiguing of the
joints.
I saw photographs of the "fix" which entailed re-soldering the chip and
then applying epoxy to the corners to mechanically hold the GPU to the
board and mechanically constrain it.
I do not have time to look up the photographs which were at the time put
on line as I have to go into hospital for about a week but if anyone on
this link has the web links put on line at the time about 2 years ago
please post them otherwise I will search them when I get out (If they
let me out...8-(
John
John Burke
(408) 515 4992
_____
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Klaus Reindl
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2008 11:32 PM
To: 'John Burke'; [log in to unmask];
[log in to unmask]; 'Henning Leidecker'; 'Brusse, Jay A.
(GSFC-560.0)[QSS]'
Cc: 'SMART Group smart-e-link'; '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)';
'TechNet E-Mail Forum'
Subject: AW: RE: AW: [RoHSUSAPushback] FW: [tinwhiskers] IPC expresses
concerns on possible ROHS revisions
Dear John,
since I still have connections to several former RoHS workgroups
(German ZVEI and several automotive Tier 1 suppliers), I would be very
interested in specifics
of the Xbox 360 casus.
I only have heard and read very general info-one was that a processor
was "thermally overstressed due to
a board design flaw".
But the source of this info can be ranked close to rumour.
So, if you have proven facts, please disseminate them.
Thanks a lot, nice week and kind regards,
Klaus
_____
Von: John Burke [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Gesendet: Sonntag, 10. August 2008 23:10
An: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask];
[log in to unmask]; 'Henning Leidecker'; 'Brusse, Jay A.
(GSFC-560.0)[QSS]'
Cc: 'SMART Group smart-e-link'; '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)';
'TechNet E-Mail Forum'
Betreff: [!! SPAM] RE: AW: [RoHSUSAPushback] FW: [tinwhiskers] IPC
expresses concerns on possible ROHS revisions
Interesting comment - apologies for the late reply but I have been
travelling.
Unexpected catastrophe? I guess that 3.5 billion dollars that had to be
reserved by Microsoft as a result of all of it's Xbox 360 processors
being unreliable due to lead free could be cataloged under that
heading??
John Burke
(408) 515 4992
_____
From: [log in to unmask]
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bob Landman
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 9:56 AM
To: [log in to unmask]; [log in to unmask];
[log in to unmask]; 'Henning Leidecker'; 'Brusse, Jay A.
(GSFC-560.0)[QSS]'
Cc: 'SMART Group smart-e-link'; '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)';
'TechNet E-Mail Forum'
Subject: RE: AW: [RoHSUSAPushback] FW: [tinwhiskers] IPC expresses
concerns on possible ROHS revisions
Dear Klaus,
Thank you for your kind comments. I noted that you said that
"the bulk of the transition to Pb-free is or will be done. So far, we
have not heard of an unexpected catastrophe."
I would remind everyone that there have been some well documented
failures, including at nuclear power plants. See http://nepp.
<http://nepp.nasa.gov/WHISKER/failures/index.htm>
nasa.gov/WHISKER/failures/index.htm and this website is always being
updated with new facts of failures.
The problem is that NASA knows of many failures but are not permitted to
share them all as the manufacturers and military/aerospace agencies who
come to them for help and failure analysis, forbid them to disclose the
problems.
What manufacturer wants to wash it's dirty laundry in public?
So, how will we know of these failures? Will Sony and Toshiba and
Philips and Siemens tell us? Or will the products that fail, fail
intermittantly, fail and be thrown away in some landfill (not recycled)?
Isn't this more likely to happen since we have had failures and there is
no lead free solder that prohibits whiskers (and yes, even lead solders
have very tiny (5 micron gnarly)whiskers, I know that).
So, how many failures does it take to convince the EU they have made a
terrible mistake?
Inquiring minds would certainly like to know where that trip point is!
100?
1000? 10,000? A million? Do they care at all?
Bob Landman, President
Senior Member, IEEE PES
H&L Instruments, LLC
34 Post Road, PO Box 580
North Hampton, NH 03862-0580
(tel) 603-964-1818 (fax) 603-964-8881
www.hlinstruments. <http://www.hlinstruments.com> com
________________________________
From: [log in to unmask] On Behalf Of Klaus Reindl
Sent: Saturday, August 02, 2008 2:46 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Cc: 'SMART Group smart-e-link'; '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)';
'TechNet E-Mail Forum'
Subject: AW: AW: [RoHSUSAPushback] FW: [tinwhiskers] IPC expresses
concerns on possible ROHS revisions
Bob,
thank you for your valuable inputs.
For European manufacturers they may look a bit biased, given that the
RoSH legislation has been put in practice pretty much.
For the US, it may be a well-balanced view, since (in my view), RoHS has
not at all found broad acceptance in the US.
Of course, also in Europe the Pandora's box of problems with the main
replacement for the eutectic PbSn solder system-Sn outerleads plating
and SAC or doped SnCu solders are known: Poorer wettability, poorer
reliability under slow dT/dt excursions, lower performance in drop tets,
Sn whiskers on non-soldered, Sn plated Cu or Alloy 42 lead surfaces.
In order to eliminate or at least decrease those problems, many
measures, based on material sciences, have been introduced on the
component and board soldering sides.
But as you state, the problems could not be solved completely yet.
Especially the Sn whisker issue is still open. The whisker stress tests
-called accelerating, without any acceleration factor being known-are
more of a pacifier for worried moods rather than a scientifically based
approach.
By the way, Sn whiskers also were reported with eutectic SnPb plating
and soilders, albeit on a much lower scale.
But it is fruitless to again and again scrape in open wounds.
At least here in Europe and in Japan and soon in China and Korea and
California (to name a few), the bulk of the transition to Pb-free is or
will be done.
So far, we have not heard of an unexpected catastrophe.
It only leaves us engineers to stay vigilant, in order to avoid more
regulation without valid physics background, being enforced on the
industry.
Best regards,
Klaus Reindl
__._,_.___
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