Humorous but plausible; bureaucracy breeds bureaucracy.
Thank you,
David Tremmel
Value Recovery
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-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Fenner
Sent: Jueves, 12 de Junio de 2008 08:42 a.m.
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flame retardants ignite controversy - Posted without
comment
True, but you don't fully understand the EU ......
Think it through completely. It's not just pollution, it's well documented
that fires in living spaces are a major cause of lung disease in 3rd world.
(true).
They will use this to insist that all our caves are fitted with chimneys.
These chimneys will have to be of a certain size and construction and will
need to be inspected bi-annually, (by the Chimney Construction Advisory
Board). Only licensed chimney builders will be able to build them, so they
will need a Chimney Builders Licensing Inspectorate. Naturally they won't be
called chimneys but something like Domestic Self Convecting Exhaust
Emitters.
:)
Regards
Mike
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Reuven Rokah
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 2:29 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flame retardants ignite controversy - Posted without
comment
Don't forget the pollution created by the fire in the caves.
It should be monitored.
Best Regards
Reuven ROKAH
e mail: [log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Phil Nutting
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 4:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flame retardants ignite controversy - Posted without
comment
And after they ban plastic baby bottles and then glass baby bottles (they
can break and have sharp edges) they will turn their attention to the
original equipment, mother's breasts, and find that they cause serious
damage to those little dears that depend on nature's baby nectar by causing
some emotional issue or worse yet mother's milk is poisonous.
And when we have had to return to the caves, the EU will find the mold in
caves is bad for us.
WAKE UP and get a dose of reality EU!
As a late friend of mine stated about the governments getting involved in
his well being... "Stop protecting me from myself!".
I feel better now. I'm off for a snack of ground up plastic, lead and fire
retardants. Yum.
Phil
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flame retardants ignite controversy - Posted without
comment
Worse, Joe: I was watching a consumer's programme on Swiss TV last night.
Apparently, a prof. at Columbia university has discovered that some babies'
feeding bottles in polycarbonate transfer infinitesimal quantities of
bisphenol A to the contents. This is claimed to cause hormonal development
problems to the baby, creating overgrowth and obesity to the infant, as
"proved" in rodents (no mention of dosology or metabolic paths, necessary in
serious toxicity or epidemiological studies).
As a result, polycarbonate bottles are now being forbidden in Canada.
The programme anchor, who is an anti-everything by nature, then bought n
bottles in Switzerland and had a German lab (more serious than a local one,
of course) determine which ones were in PC, which in other unnamed plastics
and which in glass. The majority were in PC. However, she reported no
figures of BPA leaching, so all the PC ones were condemned without trial.
She recommended that mothers use only glass (why not, anyway???). BTW, no
thought about the titties that actually go in the childrens' mouths and what
they may be made of!
She then interviewed a so-called expert, a professor in some obscure
university, I think in France or Belgium, who claimed that BPA was one of
the worst chemicals in existence, carcinogenic to umpteen organs, mutagenic,
teratogenic, endocrine upsetter, neurotoxic, reproductive toxic and causes
nearly every other disease known to man, including Alzheimer's and
Parkinson's (yes, he recited this list except the every other disease bit
which I added). No mention of dosages, though. Now for the bad news: this
guy claims to have the ear of the EU and wants BPA and products made with it
banned throughout the Union.
That means all polycarbonates, epoxies and some copolymers are currently
under scrutiny. No DVDs or CDs, no FR-4 or epoxy adhesives, no PC monitor
cases, no plastic glazing or greenhouses, no cars, no aircraft, no
polycarbonate capacitors, no FR-4 of any flavour etc... Back to our caves,
guys!
Now, a wee bittie of simplistic chemistry. To make FR-4, a mixture of BPA
and its brominated homologue TBBPA is reacted with epichlorohydrin in the
presence of sodium hydroxide to form the basic prepolymer, which is treated
in various ways to eliminate most of the sodium chloride which is formed.
Theoretically, there is no free BPA/TBBPA left if the proportions are
stoichiometrically correct. This prepolymer is then reacted with a
crosslinking agent which joins up the linear liquid prepolymer, via the
epoxy groups in the molecules into a three-dimensional polymer. In the case
of polycarbonate, it is formed by a similar condensation reaction with BPA,
often admixed with TBBPA.
If there is any free BPA or TBBPA, it is because either a) there is an
excess beyond the stoichiometrical ratio or b) the polymerisation reaction
is incomplete. b) is easy to control but a) less so but a) can be stopped by
adding a very small excess of its reactant, epichlorohydrin in the case of
epoxies, so that it is all reacted. As the latter is volatile, any excess
will be eliminated during the curing process or any subsequent heating. I
maintain that it is not necessary for polycarbonate or epoxy resins to have
excessive quantities that can leach out, but it will require better process
control, but it is much easier to prevent the problem by banning BPA and its
brominated derivative!
For those who understand French, you can see the report at
http://www.tsr.ch/tsr/index.html?siteSect=500000&bcid=590635#bcid=590635;vid
=9199328
(if the URL is split, don't forget to join the lines) Also
http://www.tsr.ch/tsr/index.html?siteSect=311201&sid=9198628&page=1#title
for a summary
I hope this is nothing more than a storm in a baby's bottle!
A bon entendeur, salut!
Brian
Joe Fjelstad wrote:
>
> for your consideration...
> Joe
> http://www.edn.com/blog/570000257/post/1740027974.html?nid=3357&rid=20
> 8605613
> Tuesday, June 10, 2008
>
> Flame retardants ignite controversy
>
> Jun 10 2008 7:31AM
> Accurate figures are difficult to obtain, but it has been estimated
> that fires kill around 10,000 people a year globally, in which the
> cause is attributed to faulty electrical wiring in buildings and in
> electrical equipment. Flame retardants have been used very
> effectively in a wide variety of electrical equipment to prevent
> fires, reduce their seriousness and also to delay onset to allow
> people more time to evacuate. In fact, research has shown that when
> flame retardants are used as additives to plastics, the amount of
> time to escape is increased by 15 times. Since they were introduced,
thousands of lives have been saved, and so there is no doubt about their
value.
> Many types of plastics burn very easily. It has been estimated that
> the plastics in a typical TV set are equivalent to 1.5 gallons of gas,
> not something consumers want in their living rooms! However, only
> around 12% of plastics contain flame retardants. Some types are
> inherently resistant to fire, such as rigid PVC, and so do not need
> flame retardant additives. Some equipment is not at risk such as
> battery powered products like mobile phones because of the low voltages
used, and therefore flame retarded plastics are not needed.
> Mobile phone battery chargers, however, do need to have flame
> retardants as they are powered at standard voltages, and so arcing
> and high temperatures can occur if there is a defect.
> But BFRs (brominated flame retardants) are now at the center of
> considerable debate. The review of the ROHS directive, undertaken by
> the German organization Oko on behalf of the European Commission, is
> looking at a significant number of them, along with 46 other chemical
> compounds, and may well recommend the restriction of some, or all of
them.
> So, why will they be banned when many have already been tested, and it
> was concluded that they pose no threat to human health and the
environment?
> Well, Oko is recommending a ban on all organobromine and
> organochlorine compounds, including brominated flame retardants
> because of â backyard recyclingâ of WEEE (Waste Electrical and
> Electronic Equipment) in countries that do not have the know-how, or
facilities, to dismantle safely.
> The toxic fumes created by backyard and roadside fires are having a
> significant affect on human health, even causing death.
> While the Basel Convention should stop the shipping of WEEE to such
> countries, a lot of the scrap still comes from the likes of the United
> States, which has not yet ratified it.
> Flame retardants seem a classic example of a need for a risk-benefit
> balance based on assessments that the ROHS directive and REACH
> regulations were designed to resolve. Itâ s a trade-off between safe
> furniture, fabrics, and electronics or the fatalities caused in the
> poorer villages of China, India, and Africa.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
> 2008. (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
>
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