We have met the enemy, and they are EUS. 

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Phil Nutting
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 8:11 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flame retardants ignite controversy - Posted without comment

And after they ban plastic baby bottles and then glass baby bottles (they can break and have sharp edges) they will turn their attention to the original equipment, mother's breasts, and find that they cause serious damage to those little dears that depend on nature's baby nectar by causing some emotional issue or worse yet mother's milk is poisonous.

And when we have had to return to the caves, the EU will find the mold in caves is bad for us.

WAKE UP and get a dose of reality EU!

As a late friend of mine stated about the governments getting involved in his well being... "Stop protecting me from myself!".

I feel better now.  I'm off for a snack of ground up plastic, lead and fire retardants. Yum.

Phil

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
Sent: Wednesday, June 11, 2008 3:23 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Flame retardants ignite controversy - Posted without comment

Worse, Joe: I was watching a consumer's programme on Swiss TV last night. Apparently, a prof. at Columbia university has discovered that some babies' feeding bottles in polycarbonate transfer infinitesimal quantities of bisphenol A to the contents. This is claimed to cause hormonal development problems to the baby, creating overgrowth and obesity to the infant, as "proved" in rodents (no mention of dosology or metabolic paths, necessary in serious toxicity or epidemiological studies).

As a result, polycarbonate bottles are now being forbidden in Canada.

The programme anchor, who is an anti-everything by nature, then bought n bottles in Switzerland  and had a German lab (more serious than a local one, of course) determine which ones were in PC, which in other unnamed plastics and which in glass. The majority were in PC. However, she reported no figures of BPA leaching, so all the PC ones were condemned without  trial. She recommended that mothers use only glass (why not, anyway???). BTW, no thought about the titties that actually go in the childrens' mouths and what they may be made of!

She then interviewed a so-called expert, a professor in some obscure university, I think in France or Belgium, who claimed that BPA was one of the worst chemicals in existence, carcinogenic to umpteen organs, mutagenic, teratogenic, endocrine upsetter, neurotoxic, reproductive toxic and causes nearly every other disease known to man, including Alzheimer's and Parkinson's (yes, he recited this list except the every other disease bit which I added). No mention of dosages, though. Now for the bad news: this guy claims to have the ear of the EU and wants BPA and products made with it banned throughout the Union.

That means all polycarbonates, epoxies and some copolymers are currently under scrutiny. No DVDs or CDs, no FR-4 or epoxy adhesives, no PC monitor cases, no plastic glazing or greenhouses, no cars, no aircraft, no polycarbonate capacitors, no FR-4 of any flavour etc... Back to our caves, guys!

Now, a wee bittie of simplistic chemistry. To make FR-4, a mixture of BPA and its brominated homologue TBBPA is reacted with epichlorohydrin in the presence of sodium hydroxide to form the basic prepolymer, which is treated in various ways to eliminate most of the sodium chloride which is formed. Theoretically, there is no free BPA/TBBPA left if the proportions are stoichiometrically correct. This prepolymer is then reacted with a crosslinking agent which joins up the linear liquid prepolymer, via the epoxy groups in the molecules into a three-dimensional polymer.  In the case of polycarbonate, it is formed by a similar condensation reaction with BPA, often admixed with TBBPA.
If there is any free BPA or TBBPA, it is because either a) there is an excess beyond the stoichiometrical ratio or b) the polymerisation reaction is incomplete. b) is easy to control but a) less so but a) can be stopped by adding a very small excess of its reactant, epichlorohydrin in the case of epoxies, so that it is all reacted. As the latter is volatile, any excess will be eliminated during the curing process or any subsequent heating. I maintain that it is not necessary for polycarbonate or epoxy resins to have excessive quantities that can leach out, but it will require better process control, but it is much easier to prevent the problem by banning BPA and its brominated derivative!

For those who understand French, you can see the report at
http://www.tsr.ch/tsr/index.html?siteSect=500000&bcid=590635#bcid=590635;vid=9199328
(if the URL is split, don't forget to join the lines) Also http://www.tsr.ch/tsr/index.html?siteSect=311201&sid=9198628&page=1#title
for a summary

I hope this is nothing more than a storm in a baby's bottle!

A bon entendeur, salut!

Brian

Joe Fjelstad wrote:
>
> for your  consideration...
> Joe
> http://www.edn.com/blog/570000257/post/1740027974.html?nid=3357&rid=20
> 8605613
> Tuesday, June 10, 2008
>
> Flame retardants ignite  controversy
>
> Jun 10 2008 7:31AM
> Accurate figures are difficult to obtain, but it has been estimated 
> that fires kill around 10,000 people a year globally, in which the 
> cause is attributed to faulty electrical wiring in buildings and in 
> electrical equipment.  Flame retardants have been used very 
> effectively in a wide variety of electrical equipment to prevent 
> fires, reduce their seriousness and also to delay onset to  allow 
> people more time to evacuate. In fact, research has shown that when 
> flame  retardants are used as additives to plastics, the amount of 
> time to escape is  increased by 15 times. Since they were introduced, thousands of lives have been  saved, and so there is no doubt about their value.
> Many types of plastics burn very easily. It has been estimated that 
> the plastics in a typical TV set are equivalent to 1.5 gallons of gas, 
> not something consumers want in their living rooms!  However, only 
> around 12% of plastics contain flame retardants. Some types are 
> inherently resistant to fire, such as rigid PVC, and so do not need 
> flame retardant additives. Some equipment is not  at risk such as 
> battery powered products like mobile phones because of the low  voltages used, and therefore flame retarded plastics are not needed.
> Mobile  phone battery chargers, however, do need to have flame 
> retardants as they are  powered at standard voltages, and so arcing 
> and high temperatures can occur if  there is a defect.
> But BFRs (brominated flame retardants) are now at the center of 
> considerable debate. The review of the ROHS directive, undertaken by 
> the German organization  Oko on behalf of the European Commission, is 
> looking at a significant number of  them, along with 46 other chemical 
> compounds, and may well recommend the  restriction of some, or all of them.
> So, why will they be banned when many have already been tested, and it 
> was concluded that they pose no threat to human health and the environment?
> Well, Oko is recommending a ban on all organobromine and 
> organochlorine compounds, including brominated flame retardants 
> because of â  backyard recyclingâ of WEEE (Waste Electrical and 
> Electronic Equipment) in countries that do not have the know-how, or facilities, to dismantle safely.
> The toxic fumes created by backyard and roadside fires are having a 
> significant affect on human health, even causing death.
> While the Basel Convention should stop the shipping of WEEE to such 
> countries, a lot of the scrap still comes from the likes of the United 
> States,  which has not yet ratified it.
> Flame retardants seem a classic example of a need for a risk-benefit 
> balance based on assessments that the ROHS directive and REACH 
> regulations were designed  to resolve. Itâ  s a trade-off between safe 
> furniture, fabrics, and electronics or  the fatalities caused in the 
> poorer villages of China, India, and Africa.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> **************Vote for your city's best dining and nightlife. City's Best
> 2008.      (http://citysbest.aol.com?ncid=aolacg00050000000102)
>
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