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November 2007

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Subject:
From:
Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Franklin D Asbell <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 2 Nov 2007 11:07:36 -0600
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (294 lines)
But see, that's the point. You are not changing print requirements going
from 55110D to 55110G2 any more than you would going from IPC-A-610A to
IPC-A-610B.

DSCC, the government, the military, etc. all support using the latest
revision. As I noted in recent email, improvements in technology (materials,
processes, equipment, knowledge, experience, etc.) dictate evolution of
associated processes including drawings, documents, and specifications.

Just as each of us would accept an IPC revision change into our system, the
same would apply with MIL-(P)RF specifications. 

DSCC's position is, they prefer you use the latest revision (now it is
31032); however, if you choose to use legacy drawings, it shall be IAW with
acquisition documents (i.e. an agreement between buyer and seller). It is
pretty clear to me and I have never had DSCC take a second look at this
approach, customers also (with 1 exception in 9 years). 

Ask yourself this, do you purchase laminates to MIL (13949) spec or IPC
(4101) spec? What about solderability performance and acceptance, is this to
MIL-STD-2000 or J-STD's? 

With 55110, it is cancelled for "new designs"; however, they keep revising
it. If we were not be using the latest revision, why would they continue to
update a cancelled document? Hmmm...

Franklin D Asbell

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Hanna
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:42 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3

Agreed, but often the people creating the PO's don't have the authority
to waive print requirements...most customers of a board shop are not
print 'owners'.  Some days you just need to build to an old print...


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Franklin D Asbell
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 10:21 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3

I agree 100%, the "acquisition document" (i.e. purchase order) is the
driver
to fabrication and testing.

My point being a fabricator should work with the customer to specify in
the
agreed upon purchase order "product shall be fabricated and inspected to
55110G2 (or latest revision).

Of course this would take cooperation from the fabricator and customer.

There is still no magic involved in this. People make this way too
difficult.

If there is still confusion, call DSCC and ask for a verbal
clarification.
Doubt they would put that to pen, but they will state the above
verbally.

Franklin D Asbell

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Hanna
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 8:53 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3

Yet in that same amendment 1 is states;

 D.4.3.1 Group A testing.  Group A testing should be performed to the
specific revision, and amendment if applicable, called out by the
acquisition documents.  For example, if printed wiring boards are
produced to MIL-P-55110D with amendment 1, MIL-P-55110D with amendment
3, and MIL-P-55110E, a manufacturer would be expected to perform group A
testing, for the applicable lot, to the requirements of the revision
specified.

So yes, there is nothing sacred about 55110, except what it says...

You would need to find the old specs to test to if they were called out
on the master drawing.  Even to meet the new and improved spec...



-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Franklin D Asbell
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 9:12 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3

Read section 6.4.3 of MIL-PRF-55110.

It states "6.4.3 References on master drawings. All the requirements of
this
specification can be interchangeable with those specifications
identified as
MIL-P-55110. Therefore, existing master drawings or OEM documents
referencing MIL-P-55110 need not be revised, updated, or changed to make
reference to MIL-PRF-55110 in order for this specification to be used."

The problem with maintaining inspection processes which comply with
every
revision of 55110 is due to; 1) most users of 55110 are unaware of this
allowance, 2) they fail to adequately communicate it to their customers.

Revision changes are a fact of life, there is nothing sacred about 55110
making it immune from using the latest revision.

Franklin D Asbell

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Hanna
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 7:34 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3

They are probably working from a 15 year-old print -- getting the
authorization to change the print would be next to impossible...and the
parts must meet print -- simple huh?


 
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of - bogert
Sent: Friday, November 02, 2007 4:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3

Why don't you ask your customer if you can work to the latest
MIL-PRF-31032 
which supersedes MIL-P-55110 and MIL-PRF-55110?


>From: Paul P Greene <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>,              Paul P 
>Greene <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] MIL-P-55110D Amendment3
>Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2007 15:13:26 -0500
>
>Hi All,
>         I have a requirement to get the subject specification
(including 
>the
>correct amendment) as we have to certify to it for a customer. The
product 
>is
>old and to be compliant with the drawings we must certify to this. I
have 
>tried
>DSCC and all the associated specification search sites and cannot get
back 
>to
>RevD. I managed to get a copy of RevD with ammendment 4 but need it
with
>amendment 3. I searched the archives and found plenty of correspondance
>but no details of availability.
>Thanks
>Paul
>
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