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Subject:
From:
"Haynes, Kim" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Haynes, Kim
Date:
Wed, 30 May 2007 09:45:28 -0500
Content-Type:
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Brian,
It is interesting that you should note a 5% high reading.  This could be
the result of mileage trimming by Honda as well as other companies to
lower warranty costs.  Here is a link to a USA Today article about a
lawsuit on mileage trimming.  Google also has lots of hits on "Honda
mileage" if you want to do more research.
http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-02-19-odometer-usat_x.htm
Bye and regards,
Kim Haynes
High-Speed Serial Link Applications
Texas Instruments, Inc.
214-567-2057  Telephone


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC RoHS compliant laptop with early failure

And snow is very rare here :-)

(Thank goodness! Cypriots can't drive in the dry; they would kill
themselves if it snowed!)

Brian

Creswick, Steven wrote:
> Ian,
> 
> FYI.  I've have a 03 Honda Civic Hybrid 4 dr sedan for almost 4 yrs
now.
> Have 87K+ miles.  My wife and I average [we work at the same place] 
> 90-100 miles per day [mainly rural two-lane blacktop at 50-60mph with 
> a few lights and stop signs thrown in for good measure].  Cummulative 
> mileage [based on fuel in and miles driven] is 48+ mpg.  This includes

> multiple long trips and A/C, etc.  [The trip odometer generally 
> estimates the mileage approx 5% high.].  We put on ~350 miles this 
> past weekend and obtained 52.6 mpg calculated - and I have another day

> or two before I have to fill it up again.
> 
> Range on a 13 gal tank is 600-650 miles, and change [probably fumes at

> that point].
> 
> Have replaced the dome light switch at the driver's door, wiper 
> blades, a set of tires, and routine oil changes - Nothing else.
> 
> The vehicle has a small, high-efficiency internal combustion engine, 
> with an electric assist.
> 
> Vehicle has a starter/generator built into the bell housing area which

> provides regenerative braking and an electric boost when called for.
> This battery pack [via the starter/generator] re-starts the car after 
> it shuts down at a traffic light/stop sign, etc.
> 
> The boost batteries are nothing more than an overgrown pack of ~100 
> NiMH D-cells in series, tucked upright behind the rear seat [in the 
> trunk/boot space].
> 
> I bet that my old 19hp Deutz garden tractor has a larger capacity 
> battery than does the primary lead acid battery in this car.  The 
> primary Pb-acid battery is only used to start the vehicle when the 
> ignition switch is used.  All other times, the starter/generator spins

> the engine up to idle before you can even move your foot from the 
> brake to the gas pedal.
> 
> If I were doing a lot of city driving, I would look at the Prius [but 
> it should have a larger battery capacity to be of more benefit, in my 
> opinion - Brother-in-law has one.  For highway, Honda's configuration 
> is better -in my opinion.
> 
> When the snow gets deep, we resort to the ol' Chevy Lumina van [at 
> 197K miles], or the even older Chevy 1/2 ton if it comes over the hood

> of the van.
> 
> Have only two complaints - No. 1 - It does not handle much more than
4"
> of snow [I can take off with my powered parachute in more than
that!!!].
> Being so light, it has little traction.  No. 2 - Where are the US 
> automakers in implementing these relatively simple concepts???
> 
> There is no extra lead inside ... :-)
> 
> Steve
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ian Hanna
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 9:37 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] NTC RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
> 
> A 'lead-free' hybrid -- great, we save 12oz of nice reliable 
> solder-joint, but gain 300lbs of lead-acid battery?  Not that I'm 
> opposed to hybrids -- if I could get my Tacoma bio-diesel/electric I'd

> be all over that -- but the 'lead-free' bit made me think...
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
> Sent: Wednesday, May 30, 2007 3:21 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] NTC RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
> 
> After many, many, many months of waiting, I shall take delivery of a 
> hybrid car tomorrow. It is absolutely stuffed with electronics (at the

> last count, believe it or not, 237 microprocessors in it to control 
> everything down to the way it responds to how you breathe (almost!).
> Being made in Japan, I imagine that it is all lead-free.
> 
> If a laptop with three microprocessors (CPU, GPU and HDDPU) fails 
> after,
> 
> say, 24 hours of use, this means that my brand new car should fail 
> after
> 
> 24*3/237 hours = 18 minutes. That means I cannot make it into any of 
> the
> 
> surrounding towns without having to call for help. Now, dare I suggest

> that a car suffers more climatic, vibration and shock extremes than a 
> laptop? Hopefully, it will not break down every 15 (or even 30) 
> minutes so what's the difference? May I suggest that there are several
factors:
> - the car is designed for the intended purpose: the laptop is designed

> for minimal cost in a highly competitive market
> - the car designers are aware that if the drivers get killed, they 
> cannot expect them to replace their car after n years: the laptop 
> designer of brand X is not worried if, next time round, he buys brand 
> Y because he knows tha the user of Brand Z will buy brand X next time 
> round, so the future of brands X, Y and Z are all cyclically assured, 
> deaths of the users being unlikely
> - cooling of laptops is hairy: fans reduce battery life and their 
> grill is often blocked by the clothing on the lap of the unfortunate
owner.
> Critical electronics in cars are always positioned where cooling is
> adequate: thermal design is a known factor (in laptops, the cooling 
> fan is placed where there is a little space left over, in the hopes 
> that 5% of the air may reach hot components, if you are lucky)
> - etc.?
> 
> If you don't hear from me tomorrow, it may be because I'm waiting at 
> the
> 
> side of the road for help during my 40 minute drive back from the 
> showroom.
> 
> Brian
> 
> Ian Hanna wrote:
>> I went shovel shopping last week -- there were three
>>
>> A beautiful resin handled, tempered steel, rolled edges with tack
> welds
>> and reinforcement at the stress points and seams for $39 A hardwood 
>> handled, hickory, one of similar quality for $29 And an unpriced 
>> chineese model -- inferior wood handle, much more roughly shaped, 
>> with a wide grain -- stamped steel, no welds, no reinforcement...
>>
>>  -- did a price check to compare -- it was $6.99 -- if I used a 
>> shovel every day I would invest, but for digging rocks now and then 
>> from my road -- I couldn't justify the $20-$30 difference...
>>
>>  -- I am ashamed, but that is the current reality
>>
>> I fear soon there will be less shovel selection, I am a more
> discerning
>> shopper than most, and a professional 'quality guy'  and still --
> price
>> influences me
>>
>> Ian
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:53 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>>
>> George,
>> As usual, I am in total agreement with you.
>> Bev
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Wenger, George M. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:51 AM
>> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Bev Christian
>> Subject: RE: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>>
>> Bev,
>>
>> To add to your comment, I'm more convinced than ever that "quality is

>> dead".  Given three factors 1). Quality, 2). Cost  3).  Delivery.
>> Customers can choose any two but not three.  Even companies like my
> old
>> company (Lucent Technologies / Bell Laboratories) that changed from 
>> being technology driven to supply change driven are now more worried 
>> about cost and delivery.  They may still be concerned about quality
> but
>> when their customers want the products "NOW" and they want them for
> "AS
>> CHEAP AS POSSIBLE" then quality has to suffer. 
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> George
>> George M. Wenger
>> Senior Principle FMA / Reliability Engineer Wireless network 
>> Solutions Andrew Corporation, 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059 
>> (908)
> 546-4531
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:34 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>>
>> A man I respect in the industry on these matters said (and this
> applies
>> to more than electronics), that "quality is dead".  Remember the
> mantra
>> is "smaller, cheaper, faster" or some such.  In the late nineties 
>> they said "quality is of course assumed", but I think that has gone 
>> out the window now, in the general sense.
>> Bev
>> RIM
>>
>> The opinions expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily 
>> represent those of the company that I work for. (And I am making no 
>> inferences one way or the other about our own products.)
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wolfe, Robert
>> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:27 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>>
>> Joe,
>> Just a thought without any real data (but sure has me wondering 
>> slightly).
>> EVERY single piece of electronic equipment I've purchased within the 
>> last year has either failed almost out of the box or soon after.
>> This includes 2 notebook computers, a PA Amp, 3 cell phones, a
> wireless
>> phone, an all-in-one printer.
>> Now yes like many have stated here with out data there is no case and

>> there are many reasons that could be the problem, and may not have 
>> anything to do with RoHS.
>> But from a John Q. Public buyer standpoint was I jinxed this last 
>> year were the odds not all in my favor, could be but certainly has me

>> wondering why 100% of what I bought electronically never had problems

>> till this past year everything had a problem (100%)???
>> >From my point of view I was starting to think maybe don't buy any
>> electronics for awhile?
>> Especially since the practice of many companies is, even if your unit

>> failed in only 3 months, you might get a refurbished unit that is 
>> much older back.
>> Yes they guarantee it is in perfect working order again, but just my 
>> opinion, if the unit breaks in the first 90 days you should get a
> brand
>> new replacement. 
>> Bob
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Hudson
>> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 1:02 PM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>>
>> I would suggest that it belies your undoubted professional expertise
> to
>> make the assumption that this failure has anything to do with 
>> RoHS-compliance or lead-free. Frankly, it smacks of hysteria. Surely
> you
>> can think of at least a dozen other potential failure modes, all
> equally
>> likely? Let's see some evidence in this case before you throw your
> toys
>> out of the playpen.
>>
>> Dave
> 
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