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May 2007

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Subject:
From:
Graham Collins <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Date:
Wed, 30 May 2007 06:15:02 -0400
Content-Type:
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Brian
Glad to hear it is not responsive to your breath - in North America it
is now possible to have the courts order the installation of a
"breathalyzer" in one's car, where the car will only turn on when a
sober person breathes into a tube attached to the dash...

Good luck with the hybrid!

 - Graham C

>>> [log in to unmask] 05/30/07 04:20AM >>>
After many, many, many months of waiting, I shall take delivery of a 
hybrid car tomorrow. It is absolutely stuffed with electronics (at the

last count, believe it or not, 237 microprocessors in it to control 
everything down to the way it responds to how you breathe (almost!). 
Being made in Japan, I imagine that it is all lead-free.

If a laptop with three microprocessors (CPU, GPU and HDDPU) fails
after, 
say, 24 hours of use, this means that my brand new car should fail
after 
24*3/237 hours = 18 minutes. That means I cannot make it into any of
the 
surrounding towns without having to call for help. Now, dare I suggest

that a car suffers more climatic, vibration and shock extremes than a 
laptop? Hopefully, it will not break down every 15 (or even 30) minutes

so what's the difference? May I suggest that there are several
factors:
- the car is designed for the intended purpose: the laptop is designed

for minimal cost in a highly competitive market
- the car designers are aware that if the drivers get killed, they 
cannot expect them to replace their car after n years: the laptop 
designer of brand X is not worried if, next time round, he buys brand Y

because he knows tha the user of Brand Z will buy brand X next time 
round, so the future of brands X, Y and Z are all cyclically assured, 
deaths of the users being unlikely
- cooling of laptops is hairy: fans reduce battery life and their grill

is often blocked by the clothing on the lap of the unfortunate owner. 
Critical electronics in cars are always positioned where cooling is 
adequate: thermal design is a known factor (in laptops, the cooling fan

is placed where there is a little space left over, in the hopes that 5%

of the air may reach hot components, if you are lucky)
- etc.?

If you don't hear from me tomorrow, it may be because I'm waiting at
the 
side of the road for help during my 40 minute drive back from the
showroom.

Brian

Ian Hanna wrote:
> I went shovel shopping last week -- there were three
> 
> A beautiful resin handled, tempered steel, rolled edges with tack
welds
> and reinforcement at the stress points and seams for $39
> A hardwood handled, hickory, one of similar quality for $29
> And an unpriced chineese model -- inferior wood handle, much more
> roughly shaped, with a wide grain -- stamped steel, no welds, no
> reinforcement...
> 
>  -- did a price check to compare -- it was $6.99 -- if I used a
shovel
> every day I would invest, but for digging rocks now and then from my
> road -- I couldn't justify the $20-$30 difference...
> 
>  -- I am ashamed, but that is the current reality
> 
> I fear soon there will be less shovel selection, I am a more
discerning
> shopper than most, and a professional 'quality guy'  and still --
price
> influences me
> 
> Ian
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:53 AM
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
> 
> George,
> As usual, I am in total agreement with you.
> Bev
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wenger, George M. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:51 AM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Bev Christian
> Subject: RE: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
> 
> Bev,
> 
> To add to your comment, I'm more convinced than ever that "quality
is
> dead".  Given three factors 1). Quality, 2). Cost  3).  Delivery.
> Customers can choose any two but not three.  Even companies like my
old
> company (Lucent Technologies / Bell Laboratories) that changed from
> being technology driven to supply change driven are now more worried
> about cost and delivery.  They may still be concerned about quality
but
> when their customers want the products "NOW" and they want them for
"AS
> CHEAP AS POSSIBLE" then quality has to suffer. 
> 
> 
> Regards, 
> George 
> George M. Wenger 
> Senior Principle FMA / Reliability Engineer 
> Wireless network Solutions 
> Andrew Corporation, 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059 (908)
546-4531
> [log in to unmask] 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:34 AM
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
> 
> A man I respect in the industry on these matters said (and this
applies
> to more than electronics), that "quality is dead".  Remember the
mantra
> is "smaller, cheaper, faster" or some such.  In the late nineties
they
> said "quality is of course assumed", but I think that has gone out
the
> window now, in the general sense.
> Bev
> RIM
> 
> The opinions expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily
> represent those of the company that I work for. (And I am making no
> inferences one way or the other about our own products.)
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wolfe, Robert
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:27 AM
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
> 
> Joe,
> Just a thought without any real data (but sure has me wondering
> slightly).
> EVERY single piece of electronic equipment I've purchased within the
> last year has either failed almost out of the box or soon after.
> This includes 2 notebook computers, a PA Amp, 3 cell phones, a
wireless
> phone, an all-in-one printer.
> Now yes like many have stated here with out data there is no case
and
> there are many reasons that could be the problem, and may not have
> anything to do with RoHS.
> But from a John Q. Public buyer standpoint was I jinxed this last
year
> were the odds not all in my favor, could be but certainly has me
> wondering why 100% of what I bought electronically never had
problems
> till this past year everything had a problem (100%)??? 
>>From my point of view I was starting to think maybe don't buy any
> electronics for awhile?
> Especially since the practice of many companies is, even if your
unit
> failed in only 3 months, you might get a refurbished unit that is
much
> older back.
> Yes they guarantee it is in perfect working order again, but just my
> opinion, if the unit breaks in the first 90 days you should get a
brand
> new replacement. 
> Bob
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Hudson
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 1:02 PM
> To: [log in to unmask] 
> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
> 
> I would suggest that it belies your undoubted professional expertise
to
> make the assumption that this failure has anything to do with
> RoHS-compliance or lead-free. Frankly, it smacks of hysteria. Surely
you
> can think of at least a dozen other potential failure modes, all
equally
> likely? Let's see some evidence in this case before you throw your
toys
> out of the playpen.
> 
> Dave

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