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May 2007

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Subject:
From:
Ian Hanna <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
Date:
Tue, 29 May 2007 12:00:51 -0400
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Suppose we can't say we never saw it coming...

-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Colin McVean
Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 11:54 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC RoHS compliant laptop with early failure

£5.00? They were robbed!

http://www.screwfix.com/app/sfd/cat/pro.jsp?cId=A335556&ts=53841&id=7464
1

Screwfix - pack of 3 for £6.99 = £2.33 each inc VAT. No doubt made in
the far East though.

Colin W.T. McVean M.Inst.C.T                                
Production Manager
 
 
Artetch Circuits Ltd  (www.artetch.co.uk)
Direct Dial      01903 712926
Switch Board  01903 725365
Skype: colin.artetch                                           
40th Anniversary 1967 - 2007
P Before printing , please think about the Environment       
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Eric CHRISTISON
Sent: 29 May 2007 16:48
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC RoHS compliant laptop with early failure

Yes quite, in the UK joiners (you may call them carpenters) no longer 
buy expensive saws and sharpen them but buy cheap saws for £5 on Monday 
and throw them away on Friday.  Sharpening a good saw costs more.

I suspect the reliability issues highlighted in this thread have more to

do with a move to less experienced Far eastern subcontractors who are, 
at the same time, adopting a new process (lead free) than any 
fundamental reliability issue with lead free solder joints.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Tue May 29 11:16:59 2007
> Subject: Re: [TN] NTC RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>
> I went shovel shopping last week -- there were three
>
> A beautiful resin handled, tempered steel, rolled edges with tack
welds
> and reinforcement at the stress points and seams for $39
> A hardwood handled, hickory, one of similar quality for $29
> And an unpriced chineese model -- inferior wood handle, much more
> roughly shaped, with a wide grain -- stamped steel, no welds, no
> reinforcement...
>
>  -- did a price check to compare -- it was $6.99 -- if I used a shovel
> every day I would invest, but for digging rocks now and then from my
> road -- I couldn't justify the $20-$30 difference...
>
>  -- I am ashamed, but that is the current reality
>
> I fear soon there will be less shovel selection, I am a more
discerning
> shopper than most, and a professional 'quality guy'  and still --
price
> influences me
>
> Ian
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:53 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>
> George,
> As usual, I am in total agreement with you.
> Bev
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Wenger, George M. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:51 AM
> To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Bev Christian
> Subject: RE: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>
> Bev,
>
> To add to your comment, I'm more convinced than ever that "quality is
> dead".  Given three factors 1). Quality, 2). Cost  3).  Delivery.
> Customers can choose any two but not three.  Even companies like my
old
> company (Lucent Technologies / Bell Laboratories) that changed from
> being technology driven to supply change driven are now more worried
> about cost and delivery.  They may still be concerned about quality
but
> when their customers want the products "NOW" and they want them for
"AS
> CHEAP AS POSSIBLE" then quality has to suffer. 
>
>
> Regards, 
> George 
> George M. Wenger 
> Senior Principle FMA / Reliability Engineer 
> Wireless network Solutions 
> Andrew Corporation, 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059 (908)
546-4531
> [log in to unmask] 
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bev Christian
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:34 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>
> A man I respect in the industry on these matters said (and this
applies
> to more than electronics), that "quality is dead".  Remember the
mantra
> is "smaller, cheaper, faster" or some such.  In the late nineties they
> said "quality is of course assumed", but I think that has gone out the
> window now, in the general sense.
> Bev
> RIM
>
> The opinions expressed herein are my own and do not necessarily
> represent those of the company that I work for. (And I am making no
> inferences one way or the other about our own products.)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wolfe, Robert
> Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 10:27 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>
> Joe,
> Just a thought without any real data (but sure has me wondering
> slightly).
> EVERY single piece of electronic equipment I've purchased within the
> last year has either failed almost out of the box or soon after.
> This includes 2 notebook computers, a PA Amp, 3 cell phones, a
wireless
> phone, an all-in-one printer.
> Now yes like many have stated here with out data there is no case and
> there are many reasons that could be the problem, and may not have
> anything to do with RoHS.
> But from a John Q. Public buyer standpoint was I jinxed this last year
> were the odds not all in my favor, could be but certainly has me
> wondering why 100% of what I bought electronically never had problems
> till this past year everything had a problem (100%)??? 
> >From my point of view I was starting to think maybe don't buy any
> electronics for awhile?
> Especially since the practice of many companies is, even if your unit
> failed in only 3 months, you might get a refurbished unit that is much
> older back.
> Yes they guarantee it is in perfect working order again, but just my
> opinion, if the unit breaks in the first 90 days you should get a
brand
> new replacement. 
> Bob
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David Hudson
> Sent: Monday, May 28, 2007 1:02 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] RoHS compliant laptop with early failure
>
> I would suggest that it belies your undoubted professional expertise
to
> make the assumption that this failure has anything to do with
> RoHS-compliance or lead-free. Frankly, it smacks of hysteria. Surely
you
> can think of at least a dozen other potential failure modes, all
equally
> likely? Let's see some evidence in this case before you throw your
toys
> out of the playpen.
>
> Dave
>   

-- 
Eric Christison Msc
Mechanical Engineer
Home Personal, Communication Sector
Imaging Division

STMicroelectronics (R&D) Ltd
33 Pinkhill
Edinburgh EH12 7BF
United Kingdom

Tel:	+44 (0)131 336 6165
Fax:	+ 44 (0)131 336 6001

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