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Subject:
From:
"Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Wenger, George M.
Date:
Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:32:07 -0500
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text/plain (407 lines)
No more so that soldering a SnPb BGA with SnPb solder p
Richard,



No more so that soldering a SnPb BGA with SnPb solder paste. The BGA's

with Pb-Free balls that we've soldered using SnPb solder paste were

assembled using the component vendor reflow profiles.  We've worked very

closely with our strategic component suppliers and try very hard not to

violate any of their assembly recommendations.  It hasn't happened to us

yet but if a component vendor was not willing to work with us they most

likely would not be put on our strategic vendor list.





Regards, 

George 

George M. Wenger 

Senior Principle FMA / Reliability Engineer 

Wireless network Solutions 

Andrew Corporation, 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059 (908) 546-4531

[log in to unmask] 





-----Original Message-----

From: Stadem, Richard D. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 

Sent: Tuesday, November 28, 2006 8:07 AM

To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Wenger, George M.

Subject: RE: [TN] FW: [TN] BGA anomaly



George,

If you heat up the SAC part and solder it to an assembly using 63/37

solder, is that any less of a "modification" than if you heat up the

part and solder the 63/37 balls to it?



-----Original Message-----

From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Wenger, George M.

Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:19 PM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [TN] FW: [TN] BGA anomaly



I don't disagree with the points you raise e Bob,



 



I don't disagree with the points you raise especially the point that one

has to weigh all of the risks and make an informed risk assessment.  If

we were making tens/hundreds of products with hundred/thousand collar

devices we might make the decision to pay the $25-50 national reballing

price.  However, when you're making thousands/ tens of thousands of

products with $50-100 dollar devices the $25-50 national reballing price

is not a pittance.   My reference to voiding the warranty wasn't made

because of the number of heat cycles a component vendor warrants it was

made because most component vendors have indicated that if we modify

their component in any fashion we void the warranty.



 



I don't mean to indicate that reballing is "bad" and creates un-reliable

product because if it was there won't be any companies providing

reballing service.  I do mean to indicate that we've done an internal

risk assessment based on analysis and evaluations that indicates we can

provide a quality/reliable product without the need for reballing.



 



Regards,



George



George M. Wenger



Andrew Corporation Wireless Network Solutions



Senior Principal FMA / Reliability Engineer



40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059



(908) 546-4531 [Office]  (732) 309-8964 [Cell]



  _____  



From: bob wettermann [mailto:[log in to unmask]]

Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:19 PM

To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Wenger, George M.

Subject: Re: [TN] FW: [TN] BGA anomaly



 



Hi George:



We are a reballing service provider. While we have been involved in

internal reliability testing on specific parts we have yet to see any

published papers on the topic-has anyone else seen such a study

completed and reported on? 



In terms of the reballing being expensive it depends on the value of the

device. For a several hundred/thousand dollar device the $25-50 national

reballing price seems like a pittance. The situation is not even a cost

issue if parts are not obtainable at any price and you have to ship

finished goods. (After one has weighed all of the risks)



The warranty stating no more than 3 heat cycles from most manufacturers

can and has been violated by the thousands of users who have reballed

parts since the advent of this package type. Again, this a risk vs cost

issue.



Regards



Bob Wettermann



By the way if anyone wants to be involved in such a study we would be

happy to work with you as long as the results can be reported publicly.



"Wenger, George M." <[log in to unmask]> wrote:



There are three issues with re-balling BGA's:

1. It

Ramon,



There are three issues with re-balling BGA's:

1. It is expensive

2. You void the component manufacturers warranty 3. It is a solder

repair/replacement process that requires two heating operations(removal

and Replacement)



The reason we do not re-ball is because of 2 & 3. Anytime you do a

repair process you can introduce reliability issues and when it is

compounded by losing the warranty we decided not to reball 





Regards,

George

George M. Wenger

Senior Principle FMA / Reliability Engineer Wireless network Solutions

Andrew Corporation, 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059 (908) 546-4531

[log in to unmask] 





-----Original Message-----

From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dehoyos, Ramon

Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 8:47 AM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [TN] FW: [TN] BGA anomaly



Hi George:

" c). Do not re-ball Pb-Free area array packages with SnPb balls."





Do you recommend not to reball SAC balls even if the solder paste to be

used is SnPb and Pb profiles? Could you expand the matter?

Thanks for your inputs.

Regards,

Ramon





-----Original Message-----

From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Braddock, Iain

Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 4:57 AM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [TN] FW: [TN] BGA anomaly



Many thanks all for your responses, the team have come good again! 



I guess I wasn't far off the mark then, looks like some discussions with

the Design Team are order of the day!



Regards,

Iain.



-----Original Message-----

From: Wenger, George M. [mailto:[log in to unmask]]

Sent: 24 November 2006 15:49

To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Braddock, Iain

Subject: RE: [TN] FW: [TN] BGA anomaly





Iain,



You've stated correctly the dilemma companies are facing. You've

comment/question about option 2 creating a reliability concern and also

invalidating the manufacturers warranty is also correct. Companies are

going to have to make their own risk assessments. Unfortunately, many of

those decisions are not knowledge based decisions because there isn't

good documented information available. The recommendations I've made

internally are:



1. Use SnPb assembly whenever possible

2. Use Pb-Free components and processes when product needs to be RoHS

6/6 compliant.

3. When forced into mixed alloy assembly:

a. For RoHS 6/6 product, use Pb-Free processes (245-260C) when all

components are compatible with Pb-Free processes.

b). For RoHS 5/6 product, use maximum SnPb process temperatures

(225- 235C) whenever there are components not compatible with Pb-Free

processes (i.e., don't exceed the maximum temperature the MSL was tested

at by the component vendor.

c). Do not re-ball Pb-Free area array packages with SnPb balls.



Regards,

George

George M. Wenger

Andrew Corporation Wireless Network Solutions Senior Principal FMA /

Reliability Engineer 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059

(908) 546-4531 [Office] (732) 309-8964 [Cell] -----Original

Message-----

From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Braddock, Iain

Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 7:43 AM

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [TN] FW: [TN] BGA anomaly



This sure is an interesting dilemma!



So which is the lesser of the two evils assuming you are forced into it

with the Design?



1) SnPb / SAC BGA's with a temperature profile (230ish) that allows all

joints to go liquidus.

2) Reball SAC BGA's with SnPb balls & use standard SnPb thermal profile.



If option 2 does that not create reliability concerns also invalidate

the manufacturers warranty?



Regards,

Iain.



-----Original Message-----

From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Werner Engelmaier

Sent: 22 November 2006 17:39

To: [log in to unmask]

Subject: Re: [TN] FW: [TN] BGA anomaly





*** WARNING ***



This mail has originated outside your organization, either from an

external partner or the Global Internet. 

Keep this in mind if you answer this message. 



Hi Ramon,

Mixing SnPb with SAC is not a very good idea--you are right.







Werner



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PH 847-767-5745



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