Hi John/ Werner/ Brian and all the gurus
I would look at this as an opportunity to win / to evolve. If everyone has a
problem I am keen to jump into making a LF joint - knowing nothing about it
so far. There is one side of us that would like to get it right in a balance
we make - with weightage we give - and the other to do better than everyone
else - its called evolution. Why don't we just take it like a challenge.
But of course to me it makes no diff. Just a guy living in in the land of
lotus - Goa - always LF friendly - not always EF as Brian says.
Have a nice time
Maybe its time to hibernate again. What say Paul? Hey Inge I did not include
u in the top line 'cause u r different.
Anil Kher
-----Original Message-----
From: John Burke [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: FW: [LF] RoHS Opposition (on Pb) isn't sound (SMT Sep 2006)
Hi Inge,
The environmental impact of the replacements is well documented in the
University of Stuttgart report and the EPA solder lifecycle reports.
Typically you can expect 5X to 6X impact on the environment using
replacement solders - that's what those reports say - and I have never ever
heard anyone dispute them.
The IPC I believe still have on their web site the statement from many years
back that there is absolutely no need for the lead in solders ban so indeed
it has been scrutinized at length - regretfully not enough was done to stop
it.
The emergency brake will not "get pulled" as such. I believe the train is
out of the station with a knocking coming from the engine, micro cracks in
the wheels, and no oil in the sump - it is running at full speed.
No - sometimes you don't have to pull the emergency cord to stop the train,
it manages to stop all on its own.
On reliability as I have stated elsewhere, we have become used to treating
portable electronics very very badly. The lead free solders are definitely
not as forgiving as the leaded versions when subjected to shock treatment.
My theory on reliability takes this into account, but is based on many years
of experience in soldering and the issues associated with it. The science of
soldering is one which has been stable for many years, similarly the
components and in the main the board materials.
So my reliability theory is based on individual manufacturing operations
having to learn what constitutes a new "good process", what materials will
give reliable results with which solders? (All the while every supplier
claiming that their solution is the best.) Which circuit board materials
will survive the lead free process? Which finish should be used? Couple with
this the effect of mixing in an ever growing bewildering array of exemptions
- for instance fine pitch components, and what you get in any individual
manufacturing process, is a process with many un-optimized variables, and a
work force with either little time or not enough knowledge (or both) to
optimize them to the reliability levels historically enjoyed.
That is what will bring attention to the train and its rate of progress down
the track. We have I am sure you are aware already seen Swatch stopped in
it's tracks even though willing to convert over in a timely fashion. Also in
the columns of Technet and Leadfree I have yet to hear anyone singing the
praises of lead free over their historic process...8-)
And no, I would not start a "War" without good reason, but on the other hand
I do not even defend the position, since if the EU had not chosen to
implement a far reaching very costly, needless law without reason, I could
spend a lot more time with my family.
It will be an interesting couple of years.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:54 AM
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; John Burke
Subject: RE: [TN] FW: [LF] RoHS Opposition (on Pb) isn't sound (SMT Sep
2006)
John,
If the the european LF "contract" is so deceptive and illusory, why then
have so few scrutinized closely the technical thrustworthiness? And what is
the probability that someone will pull the emergency brake when you've
already passed the destiny station. Your blog (Pushback) is impressive, and
one really becomes both thoughtful and doubtful when reading your lines. To
be more specific, are there any references on the point about LF alloy's
negative properties, both environmentally spoken and also concerning the
electronic's reliability? We have been cooperating with Universal for a
couple of years, a lot about LF too, but in this consortium not much said in
negative terms.
You would not start a war against LF without a well based reason, would you?
(No, I don't compare with someone else). Not knowing so much about this kind
of Graal. However, I'll read your bulletins carefully.
Especially those about LF reliability.
Thanks
Inge
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Burke
Sent: den 2 oktober 2006 21:39
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] FW: [LF] RoHS Opposition (on Pb) isn't sound (SMT Sep
2006)
FYI,
John
_____
From: John Burke [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 11:25 AM
To: '(Leadfree Electronics Assembly Forum)'; 'MA/NY DDave';
[log in to unmask]
Cc: [log in to unmask]
Subject: RE: [LF] RoHS Opposition (on Pb) isn't sound (SMT Sep 2006)
The article is not up there yet Dave the site is still showing August, I
look forward to seeing it though.
Sound scientific data will always be just that. Opinions, driven only by
commercial and political pressures will never change the facts -
I guess, given the fact that rightly or wrongly the law is in place on "no
lead soldering" we will soon find out whether or (potentially very
embarrassingly) not the emperors of the lead free solder movement have the
reliability aspects adequately covered as lead free is the only game in
town.
Whether they do or not, the environmental impact of the replacements as
stated in a plethora of sources is not going to change. The replacements
have a much higher environmental burden than leaded 63/37 tin lead.
Lead in solders RoHS legislation is NOT a "slam dunk" environmental issue,
since clearly no overall assessment of environment impact has ever taken
place by the commission, note they way the commission represent the reason
for RoHS - as detailed by this excerpt from the commission in a letter to me
:
=======================================================================
===
I reply on behalf of Vice-President Margot Wallstrom and Commissioner
Stavros Dimas.
Further to my e-mail of 30 June 2006 on the same subject, I recall that the
aim of the RoHS Directive is the substitution of lead, mercury, cadmium,
hexavalent chromium, polybrominated biphenyls (PBB) and polybrominated
diphenyl ethers (PBDE) in electrical and electronic equipment, where
alternatives are available, in order to facilitate sound recovery and
prevent problems during the waste management phase.
=======================================================================
====
The really interesting comment in that and every other communication that I
have received from the commission is this one:
=======================================================================
====
Please note that this opinion of the Commission services is not legally
binding since a legally binding interpretation of Community legislation is,
under the Treaty, the exclusive competence of the European Court of Justice.
Yours sincerely,
Klaus Koegler
=======================================================================
====
So I guess whatever the reality of the situation at the end of the day it
will be up to the courts to decide. Whether that case is a massive loss of
revenue stream caused by substitution and subsequent failures, inability to
manufacture or failed electronics in a safety critical situation - who
knows, we can only wait and see.
I predict that the commission will make the lead in solders ban optional and
NOT obligatory by their review in 2008 at the latest.
John
-----Original Message-----
From: Leadfree [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of MA/NY DDave
Sent: Sunday, October 01, 2006 10:04 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [LF] RoHS Opposition (on Pb) isn't sound (SMT Sep 2006)
Hi IPC LF Listservers,
For those of us who get SMT Magazine we may have already seen the September
2006 article by Dr Ron, (Ron Lasky), in SMT Magazine's Surface Mount
Process Optimization regular column. As soon as it is available on
www.smtmag.com one of us should post the link.
The title is " "Repeal RoHS" Movement Emerges", which is a bit ODD to me
for a Process Optimization column. Oh Well !!. SMT Magazine should probably
change the column title to a free flowing opinion piece.
This opinion piece by Ron is extremely negative on anyone who opposes
Lead-
Free as if they are just un-informed underclass persons. Dr Ron is not
alone in this approach. In a older good book with lots of good information
from the Univ of Maryland (CALCE) the same opinion was written for anyone
who stands for sound engineering or even asks "Just Why are we doing this?"
or "Where's the data?" . CALCE too, was not alone for jumping on the
current political band wagon.
(For reflection is a historical data point that the first emperor of China
sealed in his mercury tomb, all his chief engineers that engineered his
tomb)
Anyway, I like Dr Ron, know him personally, and Dr Ron sometimes reads this
list. Even SO for those who get the magazine let the comments begin on his
article. I will add mine a little later.
Yours in Engineering, Dave
YiEngr, MA/NY DDave
P.S. I hope a Canadian Goose was caught by RockWellC DavyH.
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