TECHNET Archives

October 2006

TechNet@IPC.ORG

Options: Use Monospaced Font
Show Text Part by Default
Show All Mail Headers

Message: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Topic: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]
Author: [<< First] [< Prev] [Next >] [Last >>]

Print Reply
Subject:
From:
Rich Wolbert <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Rich Wolbert <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Fri, 20 Oct 2006 06:31:18 -0400
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (176 lines)
Since we went down the road...I agree with most of what was said but even
some of our more reputable suppliers have shipped parts out and got stung.
Ironically enough the counterfeit houses have improved their production
processes and it's getting harder to identify the counterfeits.

We had one device that came in "factory packaging" and every indication said
this was an official part, except that Motorola had stopped producing the
part several years ago and the date code was 2006!

----- Original Message -----
From: "Bernard Kessler" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, October 19, 2006 7:38 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] Oxidized PCBs (Counterfeit parts)


> Again off subject----
> For new sources consider photos prior to shipments and escrow
> accounts------ allowing time for visual inspection.  No guaranteed
> safeguard but
> both tend to filter out the blatant con artist.
> Bernie
>  .
>
>
>
>
>
> Ben Kim ----
> You may be slightly --- slightly --- off-subject but remarkably
> on-target.  It's a daily battle to guard against the rogues
> in this business and keep clients on schedule.  This general subject
> would have been a natural for the old
> Round Table meetings ---- where anything and everything of legitimate
> concern to any one segment of the
> PCB industry was fair game for discussion.
> Bernie Kessler
>
>
> At 04:02 PM 10/19/2006, Ben Kim wrote:
>>Rich,
>>
>>Counterfeit parts are definitely a growing problem.  But if you only rely
>>on factory delivery, you are still left with a line down problem.
>>
>>There are many scoundrels selling counterfeit parts in the gray market and
>>it hurts all of us as a whole, but there are also many more reliable
>>distributors that do deliver as promised on a daily basis.  I know many
>>independent distributors who run very clean operations by supplying stock
>>from reliable OEMs/CEMs and a set of established trading partners.
>>
>>But when a part can only be sourced from a questionable supplier with a
>>reputation for selling counterfeit/substandard parts, a good distributor
>>should inform your buyer of the situation and recommend against the
>>purchase.  If you are so desperate that you decide to proceed anyway,
>>there
>>are still many steps that can be taken to prevent counterfeit parts from
>>getting anywhere near your boards, such as rigorous vendor screening,
>>visual inspection, and various levels of electrical or functional
>>component
>>testing.
>>
>>But you need to work with a distributor that is open, direct, and honest
>>with you.  If they're only looking to make a quick buck and make promises
>>they cannot deliver, then I guess you might end up with an expensive set
>>of
>>scrap boards.
>>
>>In my opinion, the key to sourcing components is in the processes you
>>setup, same as in production.  If you have bad processes in place or do
>>not
>>practice and improve upon them diligently, your problems will build up and
>>bite your behind.
>>
>>I know this wasn't the main point of your discussion so my apologies if
>>I'm
>>off topic, but I just wanted to share my experience from a supplier's
>>perspective in case it may be helpful down the road.
>>
>>Best regards,
>>
>>Ben Kim
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>======================
>>On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:17:55 -0400, Rich Wolbert <[log in to unmask]>
>>wrote:
>>
>> >Wayne,
>> >
>> >...Sorry to hear you had the same experience with the counterfeit parts.
>> >It
>> >seems like you have to buy direct from the factory to get the correct
>>parts.
>> >
>> >Rich
>> >----- Original Message -----
>> >From: "Wayne Thayer" <[log in to unmask]>
>> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> >Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 9:59 AM
>> >Subject: Re: [TN] Oxidized PCBs
>> >>
>> >> ...We've been nailed by counterfeit parts too, so I feel your pain!
>> >>
>> >> Wayne Thayer
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Rich Wolbert
>> >> Sent: Wednesday, October 18, 2006 8:32 AM
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Subject: [TN] Oxidized PCBs
>> >>
>> >> OK, I know you guys are probably going to shake your head on this one,
>> >> but I have to ask. We have a double sided fine pitch SMT assembly and
>> >> we
>> >> decided to go to white tin for the pad material. Here's where the
>> >> problem comes in, we ran one side and when we started process the
>> >> other
>> >> side we found counterfeit chips. We stopped production for two weeks
>> >> until the correct parts came in. When we tried to run the boards
>> >> again,
>> >> the PCB's oxidized so badly over the two weeks that we can not get the
>> >> solder to wet. Any suggestions, other than scrapping the 170
>> >> assemblies
>> >> at $600 a piece?
>> >>
>>
>>---------------------------------------------------
>>Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e
>>To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
>>the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
>>To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to
>>[log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
>>To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
>>[log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
>>Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
>>Please visit IPC web site
>>http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional
>>information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
>>847-615-7100 ext.2815
>>-----------------------------------------------------
>
> Bernard Kessler & Associates, Ltd
> 562-495-3221 Fax: 562-495-3228
> "Service is our profession"
> http://home.earthlink.net/~bkesslerbka
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------------------------
> Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e
> To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
> the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
> To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
> To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to
> [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
> Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
> Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
> for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
> 847-615-7100 ext.2815
> -----------------------------------------------------

---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-----------------------------------------------------

ATOM RSS1 RSS2