Yep, but you get a cooling problem with stacked dice. /Inge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dehoyos, Ramon" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 5:32 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC: Friday question 2
Very interesting. Those wafers had to have 100% yield because the
die were interconnected. In other words each die was connected directly to
the next at the wafer level. There were no need for packages as quad flat
packs or BGAs of flip chips. I did notice that some of the wafers have die
that looked darkened as if they were burned.
Some other appraches have been, to build cubes of dies that are connected to
the next die vertically. It reduces real estate in a different manner.
Ramon
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 4:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC: Friday question 2
WOW! Simply AMAZING! Inge has sent me pictures of the wafers:
http://stevezeva.homestead.com/files/PICT0018.jpg
There's only been once in my life that I've been involved in something you
might call "supercomputers". It was back in San Jose, California around 1989
or thereabouts.
I was working for Comptronix (no longer around) and we built two of the
boards that were a part of a MasPar Computer Corporation (also no longer
around) MP-1 mini-supercomputer. The two boards that we built was the
Processor Element (PE) assembly, and the Array Control Unit (ACU) assembly.
Both boards were 24" X 24". The PE had 64 processors (custom 180-pin QFP's)
on it which wasn't too bad because they were all the same part number, but
the ACU had 115 different programmed devices on it, most of them were
PLCC-20's and 28's. That was in addition to about 45 other part number IC's,
and about 30 passive component part numbers.
We only had a Fuji CP-4 and FIP-2 at that time...we didn't have enough room
for feeders to load everything on the ACU in one pass, so we first ran the
boards in two passes which was pretty cumbersome. Then I came-up with the
idea to sequence all the PAL's in "PAL Sets" for each board and run them in
one feeder on the FIP-2. We had to run the pick and place machine in error
stop in case there was a vision or pick-up error, we could recover right
back at the same step, otherwise you could load the rest of the board
wrong...
I was pretty impressed with what I learned about MasPar's computers, but
they don't hold a candle to what you were showing us! I hope Dr. Carlstedt
starts his project back up!
I think we should do this again...that is having this contest. It was pretty
entertaining trying to figure out what we were seeing!
-Steve-
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hfjord
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 1:51 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC: Friday question 2
Dear Yoda,
I was a little involved in a secret computer project 1992. The inventor,
doctor Carlstedt of Chalmers University, in cooperation with MIT, Stanford,
Plessey and lots of others, had invented a quite new programming language
(still not available to publicum) which simplified the way computers work.
He was decades in advance. By means of hired software guys from India and
the US, he created hardware for this purpose. The computer is not a common
paralell working type, but uses something named 'closures', which means that
instead of storing ordinary 1,0 bits, it stored whole words. These words are
floating, and other processors on the wafer use these words by means of
association. Each wafer had 500 powerful processors, each one with higher
capacity than the fastest PC. The prototype consisted of 10 wafers stacked
upon each other, with vertical connections. The wafers were put into
something like a CD drive (not rotating of course), so you could easily take
out a wafer and put in another one. The dissipation heat was incredible when
the computer worked at most, something like 12 kW! And the computer was not
bigger than a thick book! Watercooled. Several such modules could be
paralelled without limitation. A few blocks had bigger capacity than a Cray.
Unfortunately, the investor got more interested in other areas, which gave
more money on short time, and they did not believe that dr Carlstedt's
computer could compete with Intel, Cray, IBM and others (lack of competence,
said dr Carlstedt) so the whole project was stopped. He got just a couple of
years from start to finished product, then they wanted money back. But the
story is not ended, dr Carlstedt just refines his project and is awaiting
contract time to run out, then he can start it all over again.
I'm not a computer guy, so I can't judge anything, but just recapitulate
what I'm told, but I must say it was a very, very interesting project. Dr
Carlstedt has withdrawn, he has bought a farm and lives a now quiet life
together with his wife, far from the heat. Who knows, one day he may come
out of his igloo and make a try again. Besides computer interests, he works
hundreds of hours a year with archeology and a project to protect eagles.
He has lots of patents too, over 100 I think he said.
The wafers aren't like anything else in this world, they are extremly
complicated and I was allowed to present pictures, because Dr Carlstedt said
that noone will understand nothing at all. However, I was not allowed to
show high magnification images.
That's it.
Inge
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Gregory" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 4:33 PM
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC: Friday question 2
Definitely not a Cray, here's a picture of a Cray Processor board:
http://stevezeva.homestead.com/files/Processor_board_cray-1_hg.jpg
Has to be something much faster. Could it be the processors for AaAP
(Asynchronous Array of simple Processors)?
>From the following link:
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asynchronous_Array_of_Simple_Processors#As
>AP_1.0_Chip
"The Asynchronous Array of simple Processors (AsAP) architecture comprises a
2-D array of reduced complexity programmable processors with small memories
interconnected by a reconfigurable mesh network. AsAP was developed by the
VLSI Computation Laboratory (VCL) at the University of California, Davis and
achieves high performance and high energy-efficiency, while requiring a
relatively small circuit area.
AsAP processors are well suited for implementation in future fabrication
technologies, and are clocked in a Globally Asynchronous Locally Synchronous
(GALS) fashion. Individual oscillators fully halt (leakage only) in 9 cycles
when there is no work to do, and restart at full speed in less than one
cycle after work is available. The chip requires no crystal oscillators,
PLLs, DLLs, or any global frequency or phase-related signals whatsoever.
The multi-processor architecture efficiently makes use of task-level
parallelism in many complex DSP applications, and also efficiently computes
many large tasks utilizing fine-grain parallelism."
-Steve-
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ingemar Hernefjord
(KC/EMW)
Sent: Monday, October 09, 2006 8:51 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC: Friday question 2
Not a Cray, but processing and memory is OK. /Inge
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of David D. Hillman
Sent: den 9 oktober 2006 14:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC: Friday question 2
Hi folks! Charlie was actually pretty close in guessing the identity of the
"mystery creature" pix Steve posted from me on Friday. You are looking at
calcium, sodium, and various other crystal structures that formed as a
droplet of water based cleaning solution evaporated!
Inge - is your pix a portion of a Cray computer processing and/or memory
die?
Dave
Charlie Barker
<charlie.barker@S
UNTRONICINC.COM> To
Sent by: TechNet [log in to unmask]
<[log in to unmask]> cc
Subject
10/06/2006 09:24 Re: [TN] NTC: Friday question 2
AM
Please respond to
TechNet E-Mail
Forum
<[log in to unmask]>
; Please respond
to
Charlie Barker
<charlie.barker@S
UNTRONICINC.COM>
I don't know about Inge's pix, but Dave has somehow captured a frost
upheaval from my freezer!
Charlie B.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 8:30 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC: Friday question 2
Okay Everybody, here's Inge's mystery photo:
http://stevezeva.homestead.com/files/PICT0013d.jpg
I don't have a clue what it is yet...
Also Dave Hillman sent me a picture to post for our Friday guessing
contest:
http://stevezeva.homestead.com/files/Unknown_Creature.jpg
I don't have a clue about that one either...
-Steve Gregory-
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ingemar Hernefjord
(KC/EMW)
Sent: Friday, October 06, 2006 3:26 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] NTC: Friday question 2
Sending Friday picture to Steve.
This is probably a very hard to guess one, so, I will send another photo,
and still another, until the coin falls for someone.
Inge
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Hfjord
Sent: den 5 oktober 2006 22:15
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] NTC: Friday question 2
Hi,
seems as a little contest was appreciated. Unfortunately, I don't have time
to send picture in time to Steve's wonderland screen, will be posted later.
However, I'll give you a thread. The real genious will find out what I'm
going to show. The thread is this: H
Good Luck¨
Inge
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