Thanks for the unsolicited plug, Inge. I agree with you :-D
Brian
Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW) wrote:
> May you live for many, many years still, who else can we go to when these questions come up for discussion.
> Agree, water being most powerful solvent.
> I recommend all to buy "Cleaning and Contamination of Electronics Components and Assemblies" Electrochemical Publications. ISBN 0 901150 20 7 year 1986.
> Magnum opus Brianus
> Inge
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
> Sent: den 22 augusti 2006 13:26
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Vapor Degreaser...
>
> In my opinion, if your vapour degreaser does not have the features I mentioned, then the best thing you can do with it is to find a scrap metal merchant who will give you a good price for the SS! It would cost more to adapt it (e.g. $15k-30k for a refrigerated freeboard, $5k-10k for auto sliding doors, 20k-50k for a programmable hoist etc.) It would be more economical to buy a new machine of modern design! I have seen old VDs used as simple immersion tanks for non-volatile substances!
>
> It may interest you to know that one of my tasks when working as a consultant for the UNEP MLF was to check that old VDs, many with inadequate freeboards, were destroyed beyond all possibility of re-use!
> In one Chinese factory we visited, the "destruction" was one 3 mm hole drilled into the bottom of each tank (obviously easy to argon-weld it closed again). I considered this inadequate destruction and informed the accompanying UN official. He immediately asked the owners for a sledgehammer and he started knocking hell out of the whole machine - and this was a guy who reported directly to the Secretary-General of the MLF! I have a photo of him, in a beautifully tailored suit, doing this! :-)
>
> You ask me what I would use in a VD. In the first place, the only VD I would use today would be a fully closed zero-emissions type from $80k to 500k. I would not consider an open degreaser except a very few special designs. Whatever I would use inside it would depend on what I was doing. For most metal degreasing, I would use stabilised trichloroethylene as my first choice (cheap, moderate toxicity, over 100 years of field records, safe, easily obtainable from multiple sources).
> I would not use a VD for most defluxing: possible exception for some hybrid designs as the hydrogen bonding of the flux to the substrate is much weaker than with an organic substrate and some hybrids are attacked by water-based cleaners. In this case, I would use a TCE-methanol azeotrope, bearing in mind that the stabilisation of such mixtures is hairy and requires careful maintenance. I would not use one of the "designer" solvents, except as a last resort.
>
> HCFC-225, as has been pointed out, is a no-no, although it closely matches CFC-113 in most characteristics. The Vertrel HFCs and the 3-M HFEs are not good solvents unless blended with trans-dichloroethylene and alcohols, thus losing their advantages of good stability and low toxicity; they are horrendous global warmers, from 300 to 1500 times worse than CO2, besides being horribly expensive. Personally, I would never use nPB with our current lack of knowledge.
>
> I maintain the same position I have held for over 40 years: water is the best defluxing solvent. Believe me, I was considered an iconoclast for this belief which I published in the 1960s and was really detested by the CFC-113 makers! :-)
>
> Brian
>
> Steve Gregory wrote:
>> Hi Brian!
>>
>> I read everything at the link you provided, and I am giving it thought. Our degreaser doesn't have an extended freeboard, so that would need to be added if we were to go to Ensolv.
>>
>> Let me ask you this, what would you use in a vapor degreaser? I did a search on vapor degreasing chemicals and almost everything that I came up with were nPB based...what else can I use?
>>
>> -Steve Gregory-
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
>> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:17 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: [TN] Vapor Degreaser...
>>
>> I do not recommend EnSolv, as it contains nPB. You can learn a little about its environmental and H&S issues - and both require serious thought - at http://www.cypenv.org/worldenv/files/npb.htm.
>>
>> If you must use it in a vapour degreaser, the recommended practices to reduce emissions include a deep (1½ times the opening diagonal) refrigerated freeboard, automatic sliding doors, small baskets to prevent pistoning the vapour out of the machine, draught-free environment, automatic hoist to respect freeboard dwell times and prevent brusque movements, minimal disturbance when filling/emptying machine and only when cold etc. I would also recommend operators wear badges so that their exposure can be constantly monitored. Listen to the operators for any unusual symptoms. The operators should wear protective clothing, bearing in mind that dermal uptake of nPB can be significant.
>>
>> UNEP discourages the use of nPB wherever possible.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> Steve Gregory wrote:
>>> Good Mornining All!
>>>
>>> Just curious, are there any of you out there still using a vapor
>>> degreaser? If so, what are you using in it?
>>>
>>> We have a Baron Blakeslee MLR-120 that looks in pretty good shape and
>>> we're thinking about using it for certain cleaning applications. I've
>>> been looking at some Enviro Tech Ensolv-Ionic solvent to use in it.
>>>
>>> There's been some suggestions to use alcohol in it, but I don't think
>>> that's a very good idea considering the flammability of alcohol. But
>>> besides that, alcohol isn't a very good solvent anyway.
>>>
>>> Just wondering if anybody is still vapor degreasing anymore...
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>>
>>> -Steve Gregory-
>>>
>>>
>>>
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