Hello Werner,

The Isola site is also used to track order and ship status, invoicing, and 
dock to stock in addition to technical details; so it would be entirely 
appropriate that they do not just approve all comers but first understand 
who is requesting access to what - so they are asking for 24 hours to 
review the registration - if I were auditing them and they did not have 
that control on those external accesses to those data files I would give 
them a finding.

Many of the laminators use DSC; I agree with you that TMA is a more 
appropriate and valid number; but I understand using DSC. I reserve my 
pique for those that only list DMA results. Some do both or all three. 
When I only see DSC, I subtract 10 degrees and call that value the 
equivalent to the Tg by TMA - and move on. Since the IPC has test methods 
for all three tests, they are all valid. Interestingly, IPC 4101 does not 
require any Tg testing. For Tg it states that those are "optional tests as 
agreed upon between user and supplier", and they reference both TMA and 
DSC as "the tests" for Tg.

For IS410 and IS415 they show Z-TE as 50 to 260 (not 288) on the data 
sheets I just reviewed on the web.

The form is not clear that Td is a 1% or 5% value, yes. I would write to 
them and ask for clarification. If in doubt, I would use the worst case, 
so unless told otherwise I would use 5%, especially as the spec calls for 
5% as the threshold to take the reading. (There are other problems with 
these tests and even if I knew it was supposedly 1% or 5%, I would still 
only consider it a "reference" number.

x,y-TE is below Tg, so it is low. Almost all FR4s with woven glass are 
somewhere between 10 and 14; and that number would also change in practice 
when one moves from a raw laminate core to a cured multilayer board. So, 
it is also a reference number. If I were to see something substantially 
different, either high or low, then I would expect that laminate system to 
perform differently from what we currently see. (for instance an Aramid, 
or a StablCor...)

The page you reference is lagging behind the site's make over, since it 
doesn't have any of Polyclad's laminates on it. Shame on them. But it 
actually isn't that bad and it's better than nothing. I think it is an 
attempt to simplify things for the not too materials' savvy user. It is 
meant to be used, I believe, as a first pass screen to select candidate 
materials. Then one would go get those specific datasheets to get "all the 
info" on the specific materials of interest.

I think you are being too hard on them, and trust me, I do not give them a 
"pass". But I do talk with them a lot, ask hard questions and expect 
complete answers; offer suggestions for improvements and so forth. They do 
respond. In general I would say that USA laminators didn't pick up on the 
enormity of the research and development that it would take for RoHS 
capable materials; ie: able to withstand lead-free process temperatures. 
We're constantly engaged with the entire materials industry to get robust 
materials to make our products on and we are in a race against time. 

In any event, I myself would not single out Isola. They all have similar 
short comings .... laminators: are you listening in??

Regards,

Valerie




Werner Engelmaier <[log in to unmask]> 
Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
05/19/2006 01:26 PM
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Re: [TN] Rohs Weeeeeee board material






Hi Valerie,
Isola wants you to 'register'--a process that takea more than a day.
http://www.isola-group.com/en/products/name/detail.shtml?47??does not give 

you Tg(TMA) [the most important, only Tg(DSC)] TE(50->288) instead of the 
standard TE(50->260), and a Td for which it is not clear whether it refers 
to 1% or 
5% weight loss; if you try to get to ISxxx, e.g. IS410, you get Tg(DSC)], 
TE(50->260) but CTE(x,y)=11-13 ppm/C?which cannot possible be correct, and 
the 
same Td uncertainty.
http://www.isola-group.com/en/products/CompatibleLaminate.pdf ??is totally 

inadequate as far as properties is concerned.



Werner

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