And fossil fuel related pollution kills a helluva sight more than
hydrogenated fats.
Brian
Dehoyos, Ramon wrote:
> Adding to what Brian said, there has been 10 children who were found to be lead poisoned in the NE of the USA in the last few years. 6 of those children lived in houses that did not have any lead in the water pipes, the other four had lead in the water pipes. Bullets from the civil war are found encased in lead oxide with little or no loss of the original lead. Stuff like this does not make the news.
> Same with trans fats (Hydrogenised oils). They are known to kill 30K people a year in the USA, this is from a Doctor's mouth during a debate in which he was defending the side effects of a new drug. Doctors know this stuff for years. They can see it in the plugged up veins of people that come to the hospitals with heart problems. Yet it is until this year that hydrogenised oils are banned here. On the other hand, 8 people died from SARS in the USA and the papers publish it for weeks. To find out the information that matters you need to dig deep and read from more than one source. We have to be aware that papers have tremendous pressure to sell papers. Their primary intent is not to keep us informed, that is secondary to making money.
> Ramon
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brian Ellis
> Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 3:52 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] NTC Get the Lead Out
>
> Werner
>
> You are quite right. The problem with wine in the Roman era is that they had neither bottles nor corks for bottles. Wine was stored in earthenware amphorae with a wooden bung, neither of which was proof against the infiltration of microorganisms. As a result, wine was drunk within the year, as "Beaujolais nouveau" is today, after a single fermentation (most wine today undergoes two stages of fermentation, the second one being the malolactic, which reduces the raw flavour of the malic acid). The acetobacter bacteria already had a good hold on the contents of the amphorae, especially towards the end of the summer following the grape harvest. The wine therefore contained a percentage of vinegar whose taste was partially masked by the malic acid. Now, you know and I know, the reaction of these bacteria is to oxidise the ethanol CH3CH2OH to acetic acid CH3COOH.
>
> Now, let's look at the Roman tableware. The rich used pewter (Sn90-95Pb10-5, typically). I don't think there was much glassware but analyses of Roman glass has shown it usually had up to 20% lead oxide in it. Most tableware, especially amongst the plebians and lower classes, was in glazed earthenware. And guess what was in the glaze? Right in one, lead! So, we can safely say that all drinking vessels and wine jugs, of all types, had some lead in contact with the wine.
>
> Almost all lead salts are practically insoluble in water, with two notable exceptions, the acetate and the nitrate. Yes, you read right, the acetate. So, souring wine, in contact with lead oxide, will dissolve a small quantity of lead into the brew with foreseeable long term results, which they thought was the effect of the god Saturn (in fact, alchemists even called the metal saturn in the Middle Ages) and, even today, in French, lead poisoning is called saturnisme.
>
> Now, let's look at lead water pipes. In the first place, the lead is oxidised and it is true that there may be minute quantities of lead dissolved in the water, especially if it comes from an acid region (e.g., peat bogs). This would probably be at safe ppb levels, after the first flush. However, the roughish oxidised lead forms a wonderful key for lime deposits. Very quickly, the water is in contact only with lime and not with lead. So the lead content of the water drops by orders of magnitude.
>
> Anecdote: when we were married in 1959, my wife and I moved into a 1930s semi-detached in Gosforth, just north of Newcastle-upon-Tyne. The water supply came mainly from reservoirs in the S. Cheviots, largely a peat bog area with acid water, but with some limestone exposure. The pH was about 6.5-7. We were concerned about a) the slow water flow (45 minutes to fill a bath) and b) the backboiler hardly heated the water. Being impoverished newly-weds, we could not afford professional help, so this electronics engineer moonlighted as plumber. And plumber was the operative word as I found all the pipework in the house was in lead. I decided to replace it all in half-inch copper, from the stopcock. I was astounded, when I cut away the lead. From memory, I would say the ID of the pipes was about 15 mm but the passage for the water was about 4 or 5 mm, the rest being a hard crust of lime which had accumulated in about
> 25 years in an ostensibly soft water area. I would say that the risk of lead poisoning in that house was zero. Incidentally, the house I lived in Edinburgh as a kid (18 years) also had lead pipework in a very soft water area (yes, I can hear you saying that this explains my bad character! :-) ). We didn't think twice about it.
>
> Brian
>
> Werner Engelmaier wrote:
>> Hi Dale,
>> Unfortunately you are citing another example of junk science pobular
>> knowledge.
>> "...they only know that drinking water from lead pipes (or with leaded
>> solders) is bad for you."
>> The first part refers to the Roman aqueducts that contained lead
>> linings and pipesâEUR"a study I read not too long ago actually
>> attributes the Pb-poisioning of the roman nobility to the fact that
>> they drank their wine [acitic] from Pb-leaching vessels [Brian, please
>> correct me if I am wrong on this]. the second one with the Pb-bearing
>> solder used to solder copper water pipes is definitely a red herring.
>> In New Jersey, the copper pipes were initially replaced with PCP
>> pipesâEUR"these leach indefinitely, but what was worse, they sand
>> blasted the Pb-containing paint off of highway bridges [how many kids
>> have you seen chewing paint off of a highway bridge?] which of course
>> made it air-borne and thus contaminated the backyards of people's houses close by.
>>
>> Werner
>>
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