John,
I would appreciate any IBL vapor phase information you're free to share off-line since I have fallen heir to two hand-me-down IBLs from othe plants in our company. I have run a some tests of my own with leaded and unleaded solders using the Galden 230 and found good results. As pointed out by some contributors to the thread, I found that TAL near or exceeding that specified by the paste manufacturer is sometimes required to assure complete reflow on more thermally massive components. While I have little experience with VP, I haven't found tombstones to be a major problem - yet.
If there are opinions out there (I'm sure there are) regarding the high and low points of various VP product offerings, I would appreciate seeing them also. And since it's some time before Friday, I feel safer in making that request of the forum.
George Carroll
[log in to unmask]
State of Franklin
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John Burke
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 5:39 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users
IBL is actually German, I am forwarding my notes from my evals of vapour
phase systems in 2004 to you directly since they are somewhat direct in
their content on my evaluation of the various equipment tested.
John Burke
Senior Manager - Operations , Optichron
[log in to unmask]
W: 510 249 5233
M: 408 515 4992
http://www.optichron.com
Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/e/fps/2665502/
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 1:39 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users
Hey Bro'!
Check out: http://www.adauto.co.uk/Vapour%20Phase%20Reflow.htm
Brit company that looks like they've been into vapor phase since 1985...
-Steve Gregory-
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jason Gregory
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:59 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users
John,
I would be interested in more of your info about these types of systems.
Thanks,
Jason Gregory
Manufacturing Engineer
Innova Electronics
(281)653-5593
(281)653-5594 fax
(281)594-0602 cell
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John Burke
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 12:01 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users
Just a note, some of those systems put vacuum into the chamber during
the reflow cycle to remove air voids etc.
For those that have not seen one, the process is quite the piece of
engineering. The board is on a carrier, the carrier is placed by the
carrier handler onto a flat base plate in the reflow zone. Once the
board is up to temperature a chamber comes down over the board and
carrier and seals to the base plate ( the chamber that comes down is in
effect a 5 sided box with a seal around the open face and an outlet tube
on the opposite side with a vacuum tube attached). Then the vacuum is
applied, the vacuum is then released, the chamber withdraws, and the
handler finishes the rest of the cycle delivering the resulting boards
with very nice void free solder joints.
John Burke
Senior Manager - Operations , Optichron
[log in to unmask]
W: 510 249 5233
M: 408 515 4992
http://www.optichron.com
Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/e/fps/2665502/
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Mike Fenner
Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:32 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users
I offer the following additional comment on VPR as a technique not to
any specific machine.
The latest generation VPR machines are much better than the 1980's
types.
However you do need to be a little sceptical of some of the claims for
some machine types.
Yes the delta t at peak reflow is less, it's inherent in the process and
makes VPR a good choice for prototypes, low run builds or assemblies
with acute or odd thermal loadings.
But
What about the ramp up? some machines do not address this very well,
particularly on the second board.
VPR is claimed to be anaerobic but that is only true after a time in a
fully saturated vapour system (when all air has been replaced by the
vapour), if the machine Depends on a variable vapour concentration for
heating profile it can't be saturated.
At the same time the condensation is possibly going to be variable on
the ramp up according to component or local mass so the big claim of VPR
for low delta T can be some what overstated when considering the
process as a whole...
Actually there is always going to be some air in the reflow zone, the
best I ever measured (on the 180s machines admitted) was about 100-150
ppm oxygen equivalent, be interesting to know what users are actually
getting.
The capacity of VPR for very rapid uniform heat transfer with little
mechanical stress can not be over estimated, (up to 50C/second is
possible)
but if this is taken advantage of on soldering then the flux volatiles
will demonstrate that property dramatically. Conversely this is facility
is good for curing polymers /adhesives.
Regards
Mike Fenner
Indium Corporation
T: + 44 1908 580 400
M: + 44 7810 526 317
F: + 44 1908 580 411
E: [log in to unmask]
W: www.indium.com
Pb-free: www.Pb-Free.com
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jason Gregory
Sent: 11 April 2006 18:38
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users
Hi Ramon,
Pros:
-Ability to process problematic high temp boards (thicker than .063",
high layer counts, etc.) and not have to jack with as many variables as
in convection or IR -Excellent thermal equilibrium across the assembly
and not having to worry about shadowing or thermal thieving -Probing
your board to determine preheat and then knowing your peak area's temp
already and looking through a little window to observe reflow and giving
an extra 15 or 20 seconds over for wetting
Cons:
-Fluid is expensive and if you have excess dragout, you will notice
financially. Fluid is about $1000/gallon -Higher than usual expectations
for tombstoning if your board design is a little lopsided (heavy ground
planes connected to one side of passives) or if your process is a little
off.
-Machine is a booger to clean
Jason Gregory
Manufacturing Engineer
Innova Electronics
(281)653-5593
(281)653-5594 fax
(281)594-0602 cell
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dehoyos, Ramon
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 11:36 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users
Hi Jason:
I believe that Vapor phase has a lot of good merits.
Could you share your experience with the machine? Pros and Cons.
Regards,
Ramon
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Jason Gregory
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 12:13 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users
Hello Steve,
We have a RD here and we use Galden HS-260
Jason Gregory
Manufacturing Engineer
Innova Electronics
(281)653-5593
(281)653-5594 fax
(281)594-0602 cell
[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
Sent: Tuesday, April 11, 2006 10:33 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [TN] RD Technologies Vapor Phase Users
Mornin' All!
I've just got the opportunity to work with a new vapor phase reflow
system here at my new position. It's a RD Technologies RD3 with a vapor
recovery system. We're in the process of hooking it up, we haven't yet
started it up.
I worked with a vapor phase many years ago (1988), and this system is
much nicer than what I remember about the system I worked with in the
past.
I was wondering if there are any RD Technologies users out there that
have any "words of wisdom" that they might share with me about the
system I'm that going to be working with. BTW, we're going to using
Galden heat transfer fluids.
Kind regards,
-Steve Gregory-
Senior Production Engineer
OAI Electronics
6960 East 12th Street
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74112
(918) 836-0507
(918) 706-2779 CELL
(918) 836-0184 FAX
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