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March 2006

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Subject:
From:
Chris Ball <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
Date:
Tue, 21 Mar 2006 08:07:26 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
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text/plain (266 lines)
Hi George-

Back in the day (Delco) we fabbed gazillions of our own single-sided boards
on CEM1 and CEM3; punch only. We always purchased our
doublesided/multilayer PCBS, but usually with punched non-plated features
(still true today for the most part). Having been sold and sold again, and
with the changes in a typical board and all, we got out of the fab side of
things. Most of our new stuff is at chinese shops but to my knowlede they
are not offering punched plated holes. If I ever see any I'll try to get us
some pics.

Someone said something about punching holes one at a time here.... our
punches were huge (the cutting tools at least were made by Wand Tool -
great people) and punched an entire array in two steps max. So maybe
600-800 holes plus very intricate board outlines which also featured
intricate breakaway tab configs. Most of the boards were shaped like
porkchops or little frisbee's after the dog has gnawed it for a while...

We did holes down to about 0.9MM (maybe 0.8?) and slots with the small dim
about 0.7 min.

I'm interested in these 4-6 layer punched/plated boards too. If anyone has
info regarding pricing, quality, etc... or just contact info for a shop
that does it, I'd love to hear about it.

BR,
-Chris




                       George Patrick
                       <[log in to unmask]        To:   [log in to unmask]
                       EK.COM>                           cc:
                       Sent by: TechNet                  Subject:    Re: [TN] Die Punching PWBs as opposed to drilling
                       <[log in to unmask]>                   and NC routing

                       03/20/2006 04:36 PM
                       Please respond to TechNet
                       E-Mail Forum; Please
                       respond to
                       george.h.patrick







Whew... That sounds a lot different from the punching I have seen :)

Back when I was designing automotive boards (10+ years ago) we used to
do a LOT of punching.  We typically only punched single-sided CEM-1
unless there were specific reasons NOT to, FR4 wore out the punches MUCH
more quickly and  the downtime and maintenance cost was an issue with
high production counts (our typical product had runs in the millions).
Also, punched FR4 always looked like a bumpy field after mowing, all
kinds of stuff sticking out of the hole walls and board edges.  Plated
holes were not tried because the hole walls were usually MUCH too rough
to give a reliable barrel.

Things obviously change in 10 years, but I would think that if the shops
in China are doing it, they must have to do a LOT of maintenance to keep
the punches to tight tolerances and give a sufficiently smooth hole for
the plating, especially if they are using glass laminate material...

I would love to see some cross-section pictures of the plating of a
punched hole  near the _end_ of a production run :)

--
George Patrick
Tektronix, Inc.
Central Engineering, Engineering Design Services
P.O. Box 500, M/S 39-512
Beaverton, OR 97077-0001
* 503-627-5272 (voice)     * 503-627-5587 (fax)
http://www.tektronix.com    http://www.pcb-designer.com

"Off-Grid and Proud of it!"


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Lee parker
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 12:58
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Die Punching PWBs as opposed to drilling and NC
routing


Gerald

Punching double sided boards is typical in China. I have also seen
punched
four layer and am told that six layer boards are also sometimes punched.
I
found it beyond belief that anyone would punch multilayer, but the hole
walls I have seen are not that bad and the damage to the board
(delamination) did not seem to be an issue. I am still uncomfortable
with
the concept, but it is probably my personal history at Bell
Laboratories.

Best regards

Lee

J. Lee Parker, Ph.D.
JLP Consultants LLC
804 779 3389


----- Original Message -----
From: "Gerald Gagnon" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Saturday, March 18, 2006 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: [TN] Die Punching PWBs as opposed to drilling and NC
routing


> Joe,
>
> Thanks.
>
> I hope there will be more comments particularly from producers and
users
> of
> punched PWBs. Coming from the mainstream, punching seems to be a lost
art.
>
> I am concerned about punching multilayers particularly with the newer
> materials that we use today which might not have been evaluated or
> formulated for punching.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Gerry
>
>
> From: Joe Fjelstad <[log in to unmask]>
> Reply-To: TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, [log in to unmask]
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Die Punching PWBs as opposed to drilling and NC
routing
> Date: Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:00:16 EST
>
> NC drills are highly versatile and stacking panels provides some
economy
> and
> so it will be hard to displace them.
>
> Punching can be fast (all holes at once) but is one at a time and
> depending
> on approach, hole count and feature size the tooling might be costly
and
> must
> be amortized over a number of panels to pay for the tool.
>
> Hole quality is not as good making plating more of a challenge if you
plan
> on doing double sided PCBs. I have not heard of MLBs being punched
> (except
> when the drills got too dull ;-)
>
> There should also be some concerned about punching small holes on fine
> pitch
> in glass fabric as there would be a higher risk of CAF, however  for
> polymer
> films it is not so much of an issue.
>
> I expect there will be other comments coming.
>
> Joe
>
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