Dave how many cycles did you get the -13SI to?
I could only get the regular -13 to a couple of reflows before delamination.
John
John Burke
Senior Manager - Operations , Optichron
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M: 408 515 4992
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Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/e/fps/2665502/
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dave Seymour
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 2:39 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] High-frequency losses (e.g., SATA)
We have been using 4000-13SI with success.
The 4000-13 delaminated on us also.
dave
Louis Guérin wrote:
>John,
>
>Do you have fact about it?
>
>I'm asking because I'm working on a design which has 3.125 GHz signals on it and I'm looking for Nelco 4000-13.
>
>If I can avoid problem of delamination during the lead free assembly process and get rid of another simulation pass and rework because of change in material, it will be appreciated.
>
>
>Louis Guérin, C.I.D.+
>
>Conception de Plaquette de Circuit Imprimé| PCB Designer
>
>Lyrtech RD inc.
>( Téléphone - International/Phone - Worldwide: 1 (418) 877-4644 # 242
>( Sans frais - Canada et É.-U./Toll-free - Canada and USA: 1 (888) 922-4644 # 242
>1 Téléc./Fax: 1 (418) 877-7710
>
> Infinite possibilities...TM
>
>
>-----Message d'origine-----
>De : TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] De la part de John Burke
>Envoyé : 28 février 2006 14:01
>À : [log in to unmask]
>Objet : Re: [TN] High-frequency losses (e.g., SATA)
>
>Agreed,
>
>One thing though, if you are using lead free soldering temperatures
>Nelco - 12 works fine, Nelco - 13 does not work at all.
>
>John
>
>John Burke
>Senior Manager - Operations , Optichron
>[log in to unmask]
>W: 510 249 5233
>M: 408 515 4992
>http://www.optichron.com
>Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/e/fps/2665502/
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dwight Mattix
>Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 10:09 AM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] High-frequency losses (e.g., SATA)
>
>Have a look at FR408. It's more like N4000-12 electrically. However,
>both
>FR408 and -12 have been close enough to -13 electrical performance to
>drop
>in as replacements in our sub-2GHz applications. Both FR408 and -12
>have
>similar innerlaminar bond strength as N4000-6. That is nearly double
>the
>inner laminar bond strength of -13. Equally important in multi-lam
>single
>ply uVia build up constructions has been -12 and FR408's (apparently)
>lower
>delam sensitivity to retained moisture. -13 is not very hydroscopic but
>it
>will separate from it's glass sooner than 408, -6 or -12 if there is
>retained moisture.
>
>We've used a ton of -13 over the years and still use it in selected
>applications for it's higher Tg and marginally lower loss but if it's
>single ply and sequential lam FR408 or -12 are the way to go.
>
>my $.02,
>dw
>
>At 10:21 PM 2/27/2006, Ofer Cohen wrote:
>
>
>>In similar occasion of similar frequency (3.125GB/s) we've declined
>>IS410 and other, and approved IS620 and Nelco 4000-13. We are checking
>>no Nelco 4000-12 which is supposed to be electrically equivalent to the
>>-13 but chipper and LF compliant.
>>
>>Regards
>>Ofer Cohen
>>Manager - Quality Assurance and Reliability
>>SIEMENS COM FN A SB
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Michael Dunn
>>Sent: Monday, February 27, 2006 22:40
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] High-frequency losses (e.g., SATA)
>>
>>Hello from a new member.
>>
>>We're wanting to run 1.5Gbps (differential) SATA signals over a
>>backplane, and naturally have SI concerns. The distance will be up to
>>15". We're considering IS410 and IS620 (620 has about 2.5x less loss).
>>
>>I've tried using calculators from Rogers and Isola, but for some
>>
>>
>reason,
>
>
>>they only report losses in single-ended lines.
>>
>>Can anyone share experiences, or suggest other tools that may be of
>>
>>
>use?
>
>
>>Thanks!!!
>>
>>
>>
>>Michael Dunn
>>Sr. Hardware Engineer
>>Kaleidescape Canada Inc.
>>611 Kumpf Drive, Unit 100
>>Waterloo, ON N2V 1K8
>>Canada
>>Ph: 519-772-6427
>>Fx: 519-772-6401
>>
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--
Dave Seymour, CID+
Catapult Communications Inc.
800 Perimeter Park Dr, Suite A
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