Some equipment manufacturers are doing the complete opposite. One of our
suppliers (name withheld intentionally) has informed us that although our
machine is technically obsolete and not supported anymore throughout the
company, we can still get parts for our old machine, but we may have to wait
up to 32 weeks for delivery.
Now do you chance the machine going down for up to 32 weeks waiting on spare
parts, buy $150k worth of spare parts to hopefully cover any unseen
breakdowns or buy a new machine? We have been lucky enough that our business
has been good enough and our demand strong enough for us to warrant buying a
new machine, but what if we weren't in this position?
My 2 cents
-----Original Message-----
From: Stephen Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 9:29 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Dek Printer
Hi Phil and All!
You're right on many points about buying used equipment. I've bought
quite a few machines in my time because the companies that I've worked
for have asked me to procure used equipment.
I've been careful, and haven't had any bad luck (so far). However, there
has been one thing that has recently come-up that I think kind of
stinks.
I'm a DEK user, and have been for years. I started using DEK printers
out in California back when I worked for Comptronix (no longer in
existence). We bought what I believe was the 4th DEK-265 sold in the US.
I used DEK-265's when I was working for SMART Modular Technologies, and
when I came out here to Oklahoma, they had a DEK-265 here. My point is
that I've been a DEK user for over a decade, and like their machines.
We started growing here where I work, and it was time to replace the
tired old 265 MK-1 that we had here, and management asked me if I could
find something used. I looked, and at the time I found quite a few used
288's on the market. I found one with an ECU for about 25K, and then
about a year later I found another one with a ECU for around 32K. We
spent about 12K upgrading the vision system on one with what DEK calls a
"Green" camera (nothing to do with lead free, the camera body is green
colored). Other than having to replace a vision card on one of them,
we've not had much go wrong with either one. We have the occasional belt
break, and we need to replace the edge clamp foils regularly because
they get dinged and bent.
I know our printers are old. In fact they aren't "Officially" supported
by DEK anymore, but they tell us that we can still get parts for them.
That's where I'm getting a little heartburn...
I know that because my printers are old, any spare parts that I order
will probably be a bit more expensive than they used to be, I understand
mark-up. But DEK has raised spare part prices to obscene levels...and I
think it's their way of trying to force us to buy a new machine.
For instance, the price for a front door cover strut (the strut that
holds the cover open) has almost doubled since I last ordered it from
$330 to $604, and an Edge Clamp Foil has went from $184 to $1284! That's
right, ONE THOUSAND TWO HUNDRED AND EIGHTY FOUR DOLLARS! I find that
unbelievable!
So, even though I have a printer that operates perfectly fine, and may
occasionally need a part replaced, I can either pay DEK's ridiculous
prices for spares, or buy a new printer.
When management looks at our cash flow and everything, we'll probably
need to keep the printers for a bit longer until buying a new printer
makes sense. Meanwhile, DEK makes this windfall from us on spare parts.
Hell of a way to treat a long time customer is all I can say...
-Steve Gregory-
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Phil Zarrow
Sent: Sunday, February 19, 2006 10:35 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Dek Printer
Hi Mike and all -
You bring up a good point. I know, from working with equipment
companies
for many years, that used equpment bought on the open market is a
double-edged
sword. On the one hand, it costs them money to support it when they
didn't
sell it a second (or third, fourth, etc) time but, on the other hand,
if the
machine turns out to be a clunker due to mis-use of a previous owner,
it
hurts their reputation. I've seen this happen quite a bit.
There are some very good used equipment firms out there that will
support
the product fully and include manuals (or copies). They also have
arrangements
with the OEM regarding parts and software. This should be confirmed
before
buying from a used equipment firm. Because, nn the other hand, there
are
some proverbial used car salesman selling machines.
I recommend that, if you are looking at the possibility of buying a used
machine, for economical reasons, check with the equipment manufacturer
first.
All the major printer, pick and place, reflow and wave manufacturers
take in
older equipment on trade and refurb them. These machines will come
with the
best warranties, upgrades and software possible and prices may surprise
you.
It is rare that you ever see a used Mydata machine on the open market -
they
make a conscious effort to buy them back for refurb and re-sell. In
the case
of DEK, access to their wonderful knowledge base (subscription) is a
valuable reason to try them first.
Among the used equipment companies, there are some very good ones, as I
mentioned. You should be able to get the serial number of the machine
you are
considering buying. If they won't give it to you, they are merely
brokers and
don't have possession of the machine, let alone upgrading, etc.
Regards and Caveat Emptor!
Phil Zarrow
ITM Consulting
Durham, NH USA
_www.ITMconsulting.org_ (http://www.ITMconsulting.org)
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