Not to mention the fact that the components and the circuit boards themselves must be solderable!
Imagine getting components from several thousand different distributors, brokers, and OEMs from literally every country in the world, and several different circuit board houses, and putting solder paste and flux into the mix, and creating perfect reflow, wave solder, and hand solder processes that produce less than 100 defects per million opportunities, and you can see for yourself that achieving 6 Sigma defect levels is indeed a tremendous, tremendous accomplishment that goes far beyond the assemblers and manufacturing engineers and their skills.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brooks,Bill
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 10:57 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Nonwetting Pad numbers
And...another aspect of the equation is that the assembly house does not actually have complete control over the soldering statistics... It might not be obvious at first glance but built into those numbers is a dependence upon how well the PCB Designer does their job of providing correct land geometries, component spacing, thermal relief, and planning for copper distribution, etc., this has a big effect on their successful soldering numbers. The particular design being built really plays a large roll in the success of the assembly house in getting all the solder joints soldered correctly on all the boards they build and the assembly engineers are challenged daily to come up with ways to overcome deficiencies in design and 'make' the assembly work. My hat is off to the folks who make their living overcoming difficult design driven assembly problems on a daily basis... you guys and gals are 'wizards' in your own right. The more training we get as designers on how to make their lives easier the better the statistics will be as well.
Best regards,
Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
PCB Design Engineer, C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 Datron World Communications, Inc.
_______________________________________
San Diego Chapter of the IPC Designers Council Communications Officer, Web Manager http://dcchapters.ipc.org/SanDiego/
http://pcbwizards.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Stadem, Richard [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 07, 2005 5:06 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Nonwetting Pad numbers
Both of those were excellent responses, Rainer!
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Blomberg, Rainer (FL51)
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:59 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Nonwetting Pad numbers
I believe you are asking if there are written or accepted levels of solder touch-up. No, there is no written or accepted level of soldering defects prior to normal touch-up. We all have different "normal" levels of touch-up and all strive for six-sigma values. Differences in design, component type and innumerable other variables drive success. You must support your claims based on your own experience and product and decide what is acceptable for you.
> Rainer G. Blomberg
> Honeywell -Space Systems Clearwater
> Staff Production Engineer
(727) 539-5534
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Baski Devre
Sent: Tuesday, December 06, 2005 8:52 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Nonwetting Pad numbers
Dear Ramon
But most of the manufacturer can not succedd in full joint soldering , and it is normal for them to touch up after assembly and they may indicate some ppm value according to their experience but we just want to support our claims based on writen or accepted criteria or standard.
We also want to reach a point where there is no nonwetting opportunity but sometimes some of the pads or soldering region need to be touched up or reworked after assembly Best Regards
Yusuf
Dehoyos, Ramon yazmış:
>
> Hi Les:
> I agree, six sigma is achievable, if you have dedicated
personnel, tech support and standardized good equipment that work in a symbiotic relationship. It is hard but it can be done. Toyota manufacturing plants are doing just that even in the U.S. Ego gets in people's way and prevents that from happening. It is a shame. Some people are more preoccupied in bettering themselves than moving the company forward as a whole. Do you know the DPMO to be six sigma?
> Regards,
> Ramon
>
>
>
> _____
>
>From: - Bogert [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 5:34 PM
>To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Dehoyos, Ramon
>Subject: Re: [TN] Nonwetting Pad numbers
>
>
>But it is not six sigma.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Dehoyos, Ramon <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 1:16 PM
> Subject: Re: [TN] Nonwetting Pad numbers
>
> Less than 1000 defects per million ops is good, less
> than
500 DPMO is great.
> Regards,
> Ramon
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Brooks,Bill
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 1:07 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Nonwetting Pad numbers
>
> Yusuf Gomec,
>
> This is a strange question from a designer's point of view...
> If
you send me a board with "nonwetted or insufficient soldered pads" we will reject them.
> 100% of all solder locations must be properly soldered, all the
time, every day, no exceptions. There is no criteria for 'acceptable numbers' for bad solder joints. The circuit will not work or be reliable unless they are all good solder joints. You cannot tolerate bad solder or dewetted surface finishes.
>
> Now... if you are looking for statistical figures for the
> industry
about how much scrap or rework assembly houses make, someone else will have to answer that one... Although it occurs to me that data might be a point of interest to someone trying to set up or run a board shop and figure out the costs of doing business...
>
> Your company BaskiDevre is in the business of making boards is
> it
not?... I would expect that your Quality Assurance people would have collected this statistic and it would be used as a running gauge for seeing if they had control of their processes and were maintaining them correctly in order to keep those numbers as small as possible with the equipment and methods that they had to work with. The ideal situation would be zero defects, like John Burke says. That would mean your process controls were working.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
> PCB Design Engineer, C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
> Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 Datron World
Communications, Inc.
> _______________________________________
> San Diego Chapter of the IPC Designers Council Communications
Officer, Web Manager http://dcchapters.ipc.org/SanDiego/
> http://pcbwizards.com
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Baski Devre [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 9:05 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [TN] Nonwetting Pad numbers
>
> I may ask wrongly so please let me ask again. What is the ppm
> of nonwetted or insufficient soldered pads numbers which will be
> touched up after assembly of the PCBs
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