Ouch!!! I'm thinking Steve, you've missed the context of her comments...

As for the comment about us being at the bottom of the food chain...I hear
that often and it continues to irritate me... Fabricators with that mindset
are going to be left behind.

While I am sure that was a common feeling years ago and may even be true to
some extent, and, may even be the cause of this strange relationship between
fabricators and OEMs and assemblers...in the end I believe it was a
self-fulfilling prophecy... you are where you eat, or where you were
eaten...

The industry is changing and it is going to be the fabricators as the go-to
guys. With tighter packages, exotic materials, need for greater speed and
performance it is up to fabricators to meet the challenge...

With designs sort of stagnant for many years it was almost cookie cutter and
shops sprang up like dandelions in manure (no metaphor there, I think) and
then came China, and now smaller and smaller packages...

So whats the end user to do? Go to China? Not unless they want 20 ounce cell
phones back...no, they stay in the states and find shops that can meet these
challenges and that is where you and I come in. We find a way, a productive
way, to meet these challenges because if you and I do not do it, shops like
VT Circuits, Colonial Circuits, etc (that was a shameless plug guys, say
thank you) are sure as heck going to...and they're going to be top on the
list with the end users...

So lets stop thinking like bottom feeders and start getting our act together
to meet this challenge.

Man, now my head hurts now...

Franklin


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Hodge
Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 4:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] <List>Re: [TN] New Old Topic

Let"s face it Valerie; fabricators are at or near the bottom of the food
chain. I have bitten the proverbial lip on this subject as long as I can. I
emailed several people privately, before I signed up, about fabrication
related questions.
I sent at least 20 with answers which I believed to be accurate. I received
one response back. I continued to read the technet forums and, when I saw
something asked which I thought I could answer, I would e-mail the
individual with an answer. I thought if I signed up for Technet I would at
least get responses and opinions about my answers.  Well, that was my first
mistake. I should have kept on the sidelines and not have offered any input
in a general forum. I learned one valuable lesson:  A newbie should never
offer an opinion differing from the tenured professionals on any forum. The
good ole boys have all the right answers anyway.

At 02:15 PM 10/06/2005, you wrote:
>No one said or even suggested that fabricators wanted to segregate
>themselves from the "rest of the industry" (it wasn't a suggestion that
>came from a fabricator - someone is getting ahead of this...)
>
>I am not aware of any request for information wrt a PCB issue that was not
>answered, even if the answer was, unfortunately " we don't know enough";
>but there have always been replies
>
>Most fabricators don't need TechNet to get answers to PCB fab questions,
>they have their personal networks; when they do need an answer from a
>variety of sources or an answer that impacts on another discipline, and if
>they do know about TechNet, they use it ...
>
>Most fabricators, e.g. the individuals who monitor the processes or
>develop the processes or meet with the customers to develop solutions for
>their circuit boards, don't have the time or don't have the constant
>access to a computer to read all these emails all day and spend time
>writing essays
>
>Most fabricators are now no longer in North America and there are precious
>few in Europe
>
>And last, hopefully without sounding too off-putting, most of the problems
>most of the fabricators are working on can't be handled in this type of
>forum; it doesn't have the depth to deal with the content that fabricators
>are wrestling with; they also have to be very careful about naming
>products like laminates or chemistries, by the maker - that would not be
>professional since this isn't a very regulated medium and gossip can carry
>as far and wide as data; so you can't exactly say "is anyone using XXXX
>and having YYYY issues with it? what do you do??"
>
>Valerie
>(also nervous about having my neck this far out .... but if Fabricators
>would expand on this topic, then others would not have to speculate for
>them...)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>"Blomberg, Rainer (FL51)" <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent by: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
>10/06/2005 12:21 PM
>Please respond to TechNet E-Mail Forum; Please respond to "Blomberg,
>Rainer (FL51)"
>
>
>         To:     [log in to unmask]
>         cc:
>         Subject:        Re: [TN] New Old Topic
>
>
>Good question Franklin.
>It would be the same answer as how would they find the new, separate forum
>in the first place.
>Change the forum name to PCBTECHNET?
>Interesting tabulation.  What makes fabricators want to segregate
>themselves
>from the rest of the using industry?
>
> > Rainer G. Blomberg
> > Honeywell -Space Systems Clearwater
> > Staff Production Engineer
>(727) 539-5534
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Franklin Asbell
>Sent: Thursday, October 06, 2005 12:11 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: [TN] New Old Topic
>
>The reason for suggesting a new forum was to enhance interaction between
>fabricators. The goal or intent is not to "separate" anything but to
>enhance
>cooperation and sharing of information between board makers.
>
> From my count, nearly all YES type votes were from the fabricators as well
>as assemblers and end users.
>
>There was only 1 NO type vote from a fabricator that I counted.
>
> From an objective view I have not see any justification or argument for
>not
>having a separate fabricators forum.
>
>So going back to the original suggestion, especially from those of you
>that
>find it a bad idea not to have another forum, how can we, how can you,
>increase the level of fabricators subscribing to TechNet.
>
>Franklin
>
>(ducking again to avoid chairs and books)
>
>
>
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