Thank you.
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Roger Stoops
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 2:41 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
recommendations.
Electroless Ni (then) Immersion Au (Gold over Nickel)
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Schaefer, Chris
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 3:41 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
recommendations.
What does ENIG stand for? Emersion Nickel over Gold???
-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Ellsworth Berkowitz
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11:02 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
recommendations.
In the early '97 timeframe we switched from HASL to ENIG, primarily to
achieve "flat pads" for the increasing use of fine pitch & BGAs in our
designs. Within several months of ENIG implementation, however, we
experienced the "black pad" phenomenon. We went into scramble mode to
find an alternative...
After attending the IPC Surface Finishes conference that year, we
selected OSP as our first choice finish. Immersion Ag looked very
promising but we didn't believe it was as widely available; we did
continue to monitor developments with this finish.
OSP has worked very well in our process over these years. We started to
migrate to immersion Ag in the past year, however, mostly due to issues
with ICT probing of OSP test point pads. As the complexity of our
products has increased, the designs have likewise migrated from
reflow-wave to double-sided reflow & selective solder. Wave solder more
effectively prepares the OSP test point for probing; solder paste &
reflow presents more challenge to consistently cover our typical
via-in-pad test points. A whole 'nother story...
Generally we have reasonable inventory turnover, so OSP aging &
degradation over time hasn't been a problem (in a few cases of slow
moving product, we sent boards out to be re-OSP'ed). We have linked
lines, so, when a work order starts it stays on the line until all
assembly & soldering is finished (the chance for external Cu to oxidize
after exposure to multiple thermal processes is therefore very limited;
our boards don't wait in lengthy queue's after reflow or glue cure).
Also, we don't bake boards.
Solder joint integrity is excellent with OSP.
We still specify OSP on low complexity designs (very few of those
anymore...).
Immersion Ag is working well; also, cost has been on par with OSP (our
buyer does a great job working with the suppliers).
Hope this helps. Contact me off-line if you have other questions.
Ellsworth D. Berkowitz, P.E.
On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:49:08 -0600, Cheryl Johnson
<[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>Well I am a wife, don't have a tail (hair down to my waist, though...)
>In any case, I have been using ENIG for several years with no problems.
>
>HOWEVER, recently our off shore fab house is wanting us to go to "OSP
>over copper".
>
>Any comments? Thank you!
>
>Sincerely,
>-----------------------------------
>Cheryl Johnson, C.I.D.+
>Manager
>ExcelStor US Office, Engineering Services
>Email: [log in to unmask]
>Tel: (303) 684-7291
>Fax: (303) 684-7268
>Mobile: (303) 809-5815
>-----------------------------------
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John Burke
>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:16 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
>recommendations.
>
>
>Yup.......................
>
>Lets change the chemistry topic...............Ice cream anyone??
>
>John
>
>------------------------------------
>Avanex
>John Burke
>Senior Manager RoHS Compliance
>[log in to unmask]
>40919 Encyclopedia Circle
>Fremont
>CA 94538
>tel: 510 897 4250
>fax: 510 979 0189
>mobile: 510 676 6312
>------------------------------------
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard
>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:09 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
>recommendations.
>
>
>It must be Friday for some of us:)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Ball
>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:48 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
>recommendations.
>
>......unnnnh........no tail.......wife..........must
>resist.........arrrrgh....
>
>
>
>
> Steve Hodge
> <[log in to unmask]> To:
>[log in to unmask]
> Sent by: TechNet cc:
> <[log in to unmask]> Subject:
Re:
>[TN] <Misc>Re: [TN]
> <Misc>Re:
>[TN] RoHs board surface
> 08/11/2005 03:36 PM recommendations.
> Please respond to TechNet
> E-Mail Forum; Please
> respond to Steve Hodge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>George, I am sorry you feel you have to downgrade my opinion as being a
>sales pitch or "wife's tail". I am stating data -substantiated facts
>and I could care less about selling something to you or anyone else. A
>wife's tail? What? My wife does not have a tail. I think it should be
>"wive's tale" anyway.
>
>At 12:30 PM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
>>John,
>>
>>Your opinionated! but then too so am I. However, it sounds like our
>>opinions are based on data and not "wife's tails" or "sales pitches"
>>
>>Regards,
>>George
>>George M. Wenger
>>Reliability / FMA Engineer
>>Base Station and Subsystems Group
>>Andrew Corporation, 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059 (908)
>>546-4531 [log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John Burke
>>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:16 PM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
>>
>>
>>Very nice,
>>
>>Until you consider that ENIG infringes the design rules for at least
>>one
>of
>>the top 3 global CM's due to the issues associated with it.
>>
>>If you want the number of their chief technologist who has to look at
>enigma
>>failures week in week out I will happily supply details off line.
>>
>>I personally have built hundreds of thousands of assemblies on ENIG as
>well
>>as Immersion AG.
>>
>>As for the rest, HASL is generally failure related to a complete lack
>>of understanding of tin thickness and intermetallic growth rate, OSP
>>failures generally are related to not understanding the degradation of
>>that finish with multiple reflow cycling, and personally I would never
>>use immersion
>tin
>>without some type of diffusion barrier between it and the copper if
>>nay
>time
>>in storage was to be considered.
>>
>>The ENIG when it fails can be catastrophic............and in most
>>cases
>can
>>be pointed back to the process at the fab house rather than what
>>happened
>to
>>it during the assembly process, unlike most of the other finish
>>defects,
>and
>>has to my knowledge resulted in multi million dollar lawsuits between
>>companies in the bay area due to failures.
>>
>>If it doesn't fail - it is fine, but the joint shear strength is less
>>than the equivalent HASL or immersion AG finish due to the Tin
>>nickel/nickel copper crystalline structure, so taking into
>>consideration the higher temperatures of lead free I would be vary
>>careful using it for area array packages using this soldering
>technology.
>>
>>For the record have been using immersion silver since 1996 as I
>>produced
>the
>>first beta site production runs using alpha level, so perhaps my views
>have
>>a little more history.
>>
>>Call me opinionated - I'll take it.
>>
>>John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>------------------------------------
>>Avanex
>>John Burke
>>Senior Manager RoHS Compliance
>>[log in to unmask]
>>40919 Encyclopedia Circle
>>Fremont
>>CA 94538
>>tel: 510 897 4250
>>fax: 510 979 0189
>>mobile: 510 676 6312
>>------------------------------------
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Steve Hodge [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:44 AM
>>To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; John Burke
>>Subject: Re: <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
>>
>>
>>John, come on now. Anything can happen at any time. I have seen some
>>reservations from the IS users as to silver migration possibilities
>>and
>
>>shelf life/handling issues --you might say they have not seen them
>--"yet".
>>I have had more problems with HASL, OSP and IT than I have with ENIG.
>>ENIG has longer data history than IS, so both shoes have already
>>dropped so to speak. Three years without problems, is an eternity in
>>this business, especially when we are expected to build custom
>products in 24 hours.
>>
>>
>>At 11:00 AM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
>> >with it............YET..........
>> >
>> >------------------------------------
>> >Avanex
>> >John Burke
>> >Senior Manager RoHS Compliance
>> >[log in to unmask]
>> >40919 Encyclopedia Circle
>> >Fremont
>> >CA 94538
>> >tel: 510 897 4250
>> >fax: 510 979 0189
>> >mobile: 510 676 6312
>> >------------------------------------
>> >
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Edwin Louis
>> >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 4:48 AM
>> >To: [log in to unmask]
>> >Subject: Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
>> >
>> >
>> >We have been using ENIG now for about three years and have had no
>> >bad
>
>> >experiences with it. NASA for one does not allow the use of silver .
>> >
>> >-----Original Message-----
>> >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Werner
>> >Engelmaier
>> >Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:57 PM
>> >To: [log in to unmask]
>> >Subject: Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
>> >
>> >Hi Steve,
>> >I do not know about "bad-mouth ENIG"--I am a reliability consultant,
>> >and have had plenty of calls because of ENIG related failures, but
>> >not a one
>about
>> >iAg. On the other hand, I do not know about their respective
>environmental
>> >implications.
>> >
>> >Regards,
>> >Werner Engelmaier
>> >Engelmaier Associates, L.C.
>> >Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting
>> >7 Jasmine Run
>> >Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA
>> >Phone: 386-437-8747, Fax: 386-437-8737, Cell: 386-316-5904
>> >E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com
>> >
>> >
---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-----------------------------------------------------
---------------------------------------------------
Technet Mail List provided as a service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8e
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF Technet
To temporarily halt or (re-start) delivery of Technet send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet NOMAIL or (MAIL)
To receive ONE mailing per day of all the posts: send e-mail to [log in to unmask]: SET Technet Digest
Search the archives of previous posts at: http://listserv.ipc.org/archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-615-7100 ext.2815
-----------------------------------------------------
|
