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Subject:
From:
Steve Hodge <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Steve Hodge <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Thu, 11 Aug 2005 14:53:40 -0600
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (463 lines)
Cheryl, be afraid, be very afraid. Seriously, if you have experienced the
OSP ups and downs, and have been able to put together a robust process,
then go ahead. If OSP is new to your process, do not just change across the
board. Start off slowly and tune your process carefully. Good luck.

At 02:49 PM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
>Well I am a wife, don't have a tail (hair down to my waist, though...)
>In any case, I have been using ENIG for several years with no problems.
>
>HOWEVER, recently our off shore fab house is wanting us to go to "OSP over
>copper".
>
>Any comments?  Thank you!
>
>Sincerely,
>-----------------------------------
>Cheryl Johnson, C.I.D.+
>Manager
>ExcelStor US Office, Engineering Services
>Email: [log in to unmask]
>Tel: (303) 684-7291
>Fax: (303) 684-7268
>Mobile: (303) 809-5815
>-----------------------------------
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John Burke
>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:16 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
>recommendations.
>
>
>Yup.......................
>
>Lets change the chemistry topic...............Ice cream anyone??
>
>John
>
>------------------------------------
>Avanex
>John Burke
>Senior Manager RoHS Compliance
>[log in to unmask]
>40919 Encyclopedia Circle
>Fremont
>CA 94538
>tel: 510 897 4250
>fax: 510 979 0189
>mobile: 510 676 6312
>------------------------------------
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Stadem, Richard
>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 1:09 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
>recommendations.
>
>
>It must be Friday for some of us:)
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Chris Ball
>Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:48 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface
>recommendations.
>
>......unnnnh........no tail.......wife..........must
>resist.........arrrrgh....
>
>
>
>
>                        Steve Hodge
>                        <[log in to unmask]>           To:
>[log in to unmask]
>                        Sent by: TechNet                  cc:
>                        <[log in to unmask]>                 Subject:    Re:
>[TN] <Misc>Re: [TN]
>                                                            <Misc>Re:
>[TN] RoHs board surface
>                        08/11/2005 03:36 PM
>recommendations.
>                        Please respond to TechNet
>                        E-Mail Forum; Please
>                        respond to Steve Hodge
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>George, I am sorry you feel you have to downgrade my opinion as being a
>sales pitch or "wife's tail". I am stating data -substantiated facts and
>I could care less about selling something to you or anyone else. A
>wife's tail? What? My wife does not have a tail. I think it should be
>"wive's tale" anyway.
>
>At 12:30 PM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
> >John,
> >
> >Your opinionated!  but then too so am I.  However, it sounds like our
> >opinions are based on data and not "wife's tails" or "sales pitches"
> >
> >Regards,
> >George
> >George M. Wenger
> >Reliability / FMA Engineer
> >Base Station and Subsystems Group
> >Andrew Corporation, 40 Technology Drive, Warren, NJ 07059 (908)
> >546-4531 [log in to unmask]
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of John Burke
> >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:16 PM
> >To: [log in to unmask]
> >Subject: Re: [TN] <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
> >
> >
> >Very nice,
> >
> >Until you consider that ENIG infringes the design rules for at least
> >one
>of
> >the top 3 global CM's due to the issues associated with it.
> >
> >If you want the number of their chief technologist who has to look at
>enigma
> >failures week in week out I will happily supply details off line.
> >
> >I personally have built hundreds of thousands of assemblies on ENIG as
>well
> >as Immersion AG.
> >
> >As for the rest, HASL is generally failure related to a complete lack
> >of understanding of tin thickness and intermetallic growth rate, OSP
> >failures generally are related to not understanding the degradation of
> >that finish with multiple reflow cycling, and personally I would never
> >use immersion
>tin
> >without some type of diffusion barrier between it and the copper if nay
>time
> >in storage was to be considered.
> >
> >The ENIG when it fails can be catastrophic............and in most cases
>can
> >be pointed back to the process at the fab house rather than what
> >happened
>to
> >it during the assembly process, unlike most of the other finish
> >defects,
>and
> >has to my knowledge resulted in multi million dollar lawsuits between
> >companies in the bay area due to failures.
> >
> >If it doesn't fail - it is fine, but the joint shear strength is less
> >than the equivalent HASL or immersion AG finish due to the Tin
> >nickel/nickel copper crystalline structure, so taking into
> >consideration the higher temperatures of lead free I would be vary
> >careful using it for area array packages using this soldering
>technology.
> >
> >For the record have been using immersion silver since 1996 as I
> >produced
>the
> >first beta site production runs using alpha level, so perhaps my views
>have
> >a little more history.
> >
> >Call me opinionated - I'll take it.
> >
> >John
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >------------------------------------
> >Avanex
> >John Burke
> >Senior Manager RoHS Compliance
> >[log in to unmask]
> >40919 Encyclopedia Circle
> >Fremont
> >CA 94538
> >tel: 510 897 4250
> >fax: 510 979 0189
> >mobile: 510 676 6312
> >------------------------------------
> >
> >
> >-----Original Message-----
> >From: Steve Hodge [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 10:44 AM
> >To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; John Burke
> >Subject: Re: <Misc>Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
> >
> >
> >John, come on now. Anything can happen at any time. I have seen some
> >reservations from the IS users as to silver migration possibilities and
>
> >shelf life/handling issues --you might say they have not seen them
>--"yet".
> >I have had more problems with HASL, OSP and IT than I have with ENIG.
> >ENIG has longer data history than IS, so both shoes have already
> >dropped so to speak. Three years without problems, is an eternity in
> >this business, especially when we are expected to build  custom
>products in 24 hours.
> >
> >
> >At 11:00 AM 08/11/2005, you wrote:
> > >with it............YET..........
> > >
> > >------------------------------------
> > >Avanex
> > >John Burke
> > >Senior Manager RoHS Compliance
> > >[log in to unmask]
> > >40919 Encyclopedia Circle
> > >Fremont
> > >CA 94538
> > >tel: 510 897 4250
> > >fax: 510 979 0189
> > >mobile: 510 676 6312
> > >------------------------------------
> > >
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Edwin Louis
> > >Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 4:48 AM
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
> > >
> > >
> > >We have been using ENIG now for about three years and have had no bad
>
> > >experiences with it. NASA for one does not allow the use of silver .
> > >
> > >-----Original Message-----
> > >From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Werner Engelmaier
> > >Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 4:57 PM
> > >To: [log in to unmask]
> > >Subject: Re: [TN] RoHs board surface recommendations.
> > >
> > >Hi Steve,
> > >I do not know about "bad-mouth ENIG"--I am a reliability consultant,
> > >and have had plenty of calls because of ENIG related failures, but
> > >not a one
>about
> > >iAg. On the other hand, I do not know about their respective
>environmental
> > >implications.
> > >
> > >Regards,
> > >Werner Engelmaier
> > >Engelmaier Associates, L.C.
> > >Electronic Packaging, Interconnection and Reliability Consulting
> > >7 Jasmine Run
> > >Ormond Beach, FL 32174 USA
> > >Phone: 386-437-8747, Fax: 386-437-8737, Cell: 386-316-5904
> > >E-mail: [log in to unmask], Website: www.engelmaier.com
> > >
> > >
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