Hi Scott,
That makes sense though a word of caution, just be careful. I know many, many people who have been bitten by the lure of the cheapo versions of the big name SW only to find themselves dropping an extra $1500 in a week when they realized they couldn't add a Drill Table or the like (Usually goes something like "Yeah, sorry we didn't tell you about that...that's part of our *enhanced* document management utility"...and so begins the sucking sound).
Truth is (and always has been) you get what you pay for. Pads begins to get good at about 12K & up. Anything else is, IMO, prohibitively restricted and you get little benefit from their router @ that price point. Also, keep in mind what you are getting. A 2 layer router routes 2 layer boards (often including planes in that layer count). Any more layers and you better be sure that you can still get the router to load the board file and get those two layers routed (admittedly I've written my way around these sorts of limitations dozens of time but never an elegant solution).
So what to do, what to do? IMO you get the most bang for your buck from Protel and their (Altium's) new Designer SW has the promise of you being able to get just what you want (i.e. just a PCB and Schematic version if that's your thing). The best part is they give you full versions of all of the little stuff that matters, if not now, then soon -- i.e. Simulation, Signal Integrity, Router, etc. Altium's pretty generous that way. Also, they don't charge a maintenance fee (unless you want phone support) and you get free email support. Best deal in town. Unfortunately, you're still not going to get it for $2K -- more like $10K. But if this is what pays the bills, Protel gives you all of the features of a $75K package which means you can concievably start doing jobs you haven't been able to do before.
The other big two (or three if you count PCAD), namely Pads and OrCAD (sorry CADSTAR fans) have packages around the same price range but when I started putting together pricing - being pretty heavy into hardware / SW co-design for SoC packages myself - Altium gave me what the others couldn't for less than 1/5th the cost of the equivalent. Now if only they'd let me back onto their user's forum! (another topic altogether...nothing to do with you...just be sure the license goes with you)
Just my opinion. I know a lot of guys who really live and die by PADS and it's certainly got features I wish Protel did, and vice versa, but nothing you'll get for $2K. Wherein routers are concerned, well, PADS has 'em beat for sure, but not at that pricepoint. And if at the end of the day, that's all you're shopping for, a package with a router, then buy just that, a router. I buy tools based on projected revenue -- the ol' ROI. If I can design a circuit, code, enclosure, etc. and get it out the door for $15K, I've paid for my tools in one job (if that one tool does it all) and have $5K left to take my wife out to dinner & try to make up for all of the time I spent in the lab, alienating her and the dishes. Honestly, in being someone who makes a living doing everything from concept to completion, I can't speak for the ROI were I to do only one part of the job. But I will say that I have learned the hard way, buying lots of little point tools like a compiler-here, a
debugger-there, schematic at god-knows-where, etc. that the more you buy in pieces, the more you pay in the long run. Sometimes hard to see when that big check comes and all you're thinking is Riverboat gambling on the old Mississippi!
Hope I haven't been too light-hearted or too off-topic but I'll reiterate my key point, you will get what you pay for. If you think the $2k PADS package will do it, contact Mentor and say "I want a trial version of that package, that one right there -- with that licensing configuration, no more, no less" and spend a week or two finding out for yourself, what it does or doesn't do. They are always happy to let you trial a "full version" but it's the stuff you won't get that'll get you. And we can all speak from experience with routers in saying that sometimes the ROI is realized only in routing it yourself.
Cheers,
Joe
Scott Riley <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
Joe, I've looked at the Electra Autorouter and the tools I use (from CAD
Design Software) offer both a Spectra and an Electra interface.
Unfortunately for me these are both add ons at an additional cost.....more
than the version of the Autorouter that I'm interested in using. I don't
have a problem paying for the Autorouter, but I really don't want to pay an
even higher price (and I'm sure annual maintenance) for the interface.
Interestingly enough, I found that I can get a seat of PADS PE_Suite, which
comes with a 2layer autorouter, for less than the cost of the Electra
Autorouter and the interface. I'm sure it is a limited version and the
extra bells and whistles are always more $'s, but it might be worth a second
look. Adding another tool set to the arsenal might not be a bad idea
anyway....
Scott D. Riley
Technical Design Service
607-658-9322 - Office
607-785-1696 - FAX
www.techdesignservice.com
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Joseph
Matthews
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 6:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Autorouters
Dear Scott,
If you're looking OTS & *not* integrated, try Elecctra
(http://www.connecteda.com/). They support the Specctra formatted DSN which
most EDA tools will generate. The speed is comparable to Specctra in many
respects and they have neat little bells and whistles (mostly just what you
would need to get the job done, just not all that some of the super-high end
app's may). No less, for what you say here, it sounds like it'd do the job
and you could even get away with one of their cheaper versions (i.e. $2K US
for upto 6 layers and unlimited pins). Best yet, you can get their demo and
try it on for size and again, if the tools you use can generate a Specctra
.DSN, they can interface with Elecctra. (you just load the RTE file back
into the PCB editor when you're done and it shoudl load the tracks back on
top of the existing layout). If you have trouble specific to a tool you
might use, perhpas you could clue us in on what you have (I don't remember
you saying anything in that ! regard and I'm too lazy to scan down below
again) and we could help you with making Elecctra work (honestly I don't
work for Elecctra either...I just know it works and works very well.)
Hope this helps.
Cheers,
Joe
Scott Riley wrote:
I'm looking for some information on available autorouters (capability, cost,
etc). Most of my designs are two -six layers with 1000 pins or less. My
current design tool will support Spectra, but the cost of the interface and
the autorouter is far more that I can justify. Like everyone else I'm
looking to be more efficient, but don't want to mortgage the business for a
new software tool
What other autorouters are available and what EDA products do they support ?
Any information/experiences good or bad would be appreciated.
Scott D. Riley
Technical Design Service
607-658-9322 - Office
607-785-1696 - FAX
www.techdesignservice.com
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