Sounds good to me..
I have some programs too!!
ROLF
Brent
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
James Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 11:02 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant
So - to expand on this thought...
Changing the direction a tad... let's say that I purchase the IPC-D-356A
(or
B) Spec.
I then study it, and write a program that is used in conjunction with a
CAD program - and my program generates an IPC-D-356A Electrical Test
Netlist file - from the CAD database.
What you are saying is that I should expect to get 'help' or
'assistance'
from the IPC - in the form of 'advertising' - or 'promotion' of my
program - because I have taken the time to spend my own personal time
and money to produce it.
Sounds great to me! Where do I sign up for this deal?
Regards,
James Jackson
Oztronics - and author of DBX2IPC - a program for P-CAD 2002, P-CAD 2004
- that generates IPC-D-356A
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of
Valerie St.Cyr
Sent: Wednesday, May 11, 2005 9:27 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant
OK, I'll bite; for what it's worth, this is what I think:
All standards organizations sell their specifications; IPC at least
makes the test methods manual free for download. You can't even get the
test/sample requirements from UL without paying .. and you need those to
submit for mandatory flame testing.
You can get a lot of free but somewhat lame calculators and tools that
will provide a rough view to whatever it is you are trying to do ... but
if you really want to be accurate enough to design a high speed board,
then you need to *buy* a field solver... Same with other SI tools and
other thermal tools.
There isn't enough money floating around in the "industry" anymore;
fewer memberships; less conferences being attended; fewer books and
abstracts being bought - there isn't enough money to provide for some
slush-bucket of funds to do neat things and provide the membership with
the outputs ...
If someone puts time into developing a tool with real useful
functionality, it is because the tool was needed and there weren't
enough people with the right skill sets to do something about it willing
to donate their time to developing it; so an individual picked up the
torch and ran with it; and if the tool falls under the marketing
auspices of the IPC and they agree to link to it, then the tool should
(one assumes) embody the standards and guidelines of the entity setting
the specifications...
I don't know enough about the workings of the IPC to know if they could
be more accommodating; but I suspect that like most organizations they
are in a fight for their existence and they don't have any extra money
to design test vehicles, run test vehicles, get the data and correlate
it back to the development model; hire programmers to write the code etc
and so forth (whatever effort needs to be undertaken to develop the tool
and validate the algorithms). If they were to do that, they would
probably have to charge for the tool too; then the cost is borne by
those who use it, not by the general membership who will not pay more
dues to enable something they don't use. The membership of the IPC is
board fabricators; assemblers; designers; equipment manufacturers; raw
material suppliers; vendors of assorted accessories and consumables ...
so it's hard to develop a particular tool for one segment and have the
cost spread amongst all ...
those are my thoughts; everything today costs something ... back to the
kids with their cell phones: they pay real money to download ring tones
and screen shots with a 90 day or so license then pouf! I choose to pay
to drink good water ... it's just the way it is. You can settle for
free and second best, or pay someone something to acquire advanced
intellectual capital.
Valerie
Chris Ball <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: DesignerCouncil <[log in to unmask]>
05/11/2005 09:43 AM
Please respond to "(Designers Council Forum)"; Please respond to
chris.ball
To: [log in to unmask]
cc:
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant
Nick- I've learned whole new ECAD systems quicker than the time it took
to type that original rant. It's been my spare time-filler for a while
(and I still used some bad grammar). My intention was not to imply that
PCB Libraries is selling a poor-quality tool disguised as an IPC
standard.
Sorry if that's how you took it.
I've only used the portion of the PCBLibraries tool purchased with
IPC-7351. Regarding the pending IPC-2152 spec. and Thermalman software,
I've got their freeware calculator. But for now, the calculator results
don't match any formally released specification or standard.
So far no one has supplied an example of another standards org. doing
what IPC is doing with these companies. I really don't know one way the
other and would like to hear if it's happening elsewhere. Is this a
general trend or an IPC thing?
-Chris
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