Have you tried drawing on your monitor & using tippex on the screen recently?
It makes an awful mess :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Jack
C. Olson
Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2005 2:25 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant & IPC-7351
People still use PAPER?
How retro...
what's next?
bell bottoms?
Jack
Matthew Lamkin <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: DesignerCouncil <[log in to unmask]>
05/31/2005 02:34 AM
Please respond to
"(Designers Council Forum)" <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
Matthew Lamkin <[log in to unmask]>
To
To
[log in to unmask]
cc
Subject
Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant & IPC-7351
Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 06/30/2005 Retention
Category: G90 - General Matters/Administration
Wrong Nick.
My post WAS removed and is no longer available.
The further posts there are slightly less sever & since it was removed.
I still find it most annoying to find that the only way to get to the
IPC-7351 footprints
printed out is to purchase an expensive program that is still in
development & cannot print them out.
As I said... I wont use it because of that.
I don't want it for free, I just want it at a reasonable price & on paper.
>> Hey, just so everyone knows what's going on, I "was" a moderator
>> on the PCBL forum, having asked if they could put a Cadstar
>> Because I have complained about the inability to print & the huge
>> cost of this I have been suspended (basically kicked off!) and my
>> post removed. PCBL just do not like any complaints about their
>> baby do they.
Your post was never removed, it's still available online, see link above.
Complain away.
>> the print feature has not yet been developed for any of the
>> LP programs And you are at version 3!
Believe it or not, the demand was greater to get the following (even
greater
than the print feature since the need is temporarily met by using
printscreen and/or the LP Librarian)
- CAD tool outputs
- Free online calculator
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Matthew
Lamkin
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:40 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant & IPC-7351
I drew the "assumption" from being "told" by the UK supplier that this is
what I would need.
STOP giving out the usual crap about
> Maybe you or others in the industry can work together etc.
I never said that I would not pay for the program, what I did say was :
>OK, fair do's I think, what if I get my employers to purchase the std &
perhaps the next level of >the program that will allow me to print it.
Even if it was to be paid for, 2K is way over the top for it.
If you want lots of people to take it up then it has to be cost effective
&
this is not.
>the print feature has not yet been developed for any of the LP programs
And you are at version 3!
It's a windows program printing is a basic function...
Thats not encouraging users to use it now, is it.
>and nobody will publicize complaints against you.
Or you wont let them...
Hey, just so everyone knows what's going on, I "was" a moderator on the
PCBL
forum, having asked if they could put a Cadstar section on it too.
Because I have complained about the inability to print & the huge cost of
this I have been suspended (basically kicked off!) and my post removed.
PCBL just do not like any complaints about their baby do they.
Disgruntled....
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Ban (PCBL) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 4:05 PM
To: '(Designers Council Forum)'; Matthew Lamkin
Subject: RE: [DC] Propaganda Rant & IPC-7351
Hi, Matthew.
Matthew wrote:
However, I am unable to print out the dimensions
that I see on screen. I used to be able to do
that with the online 782 calculator. :(
And you will be able to print out the output (via browser) from the free
online calculator that PCB Libraries will release later on this summer.
Matthew wrote:
OK, fair do's I think, what if I get my employers
to purchase the std & perhaps the next level of
the program that will allow me to print it.
Purchasing the next level won't let you print, either. I'm not sure where
you drew that assumption from. Anyhow, the print feature has not yet been
developed for any of the LP programs, purchased or free. The LP Librarian
('next level' you are referring to) will let you maintain your library
documentation.
Matthew wrote:
Why has this gone from a £90 std (non members
cost) to well over 2 grand?
Though this has nothing to do with the program not yet having a print
feature (we're focused on developing outputs for a Expedition and Protel
now), if you buy a CD standard from IPC and pay for a 'single user' (least
expensive), you will find that the print function is disabled on the PDF
and
you will only be able to print by doing a 'print-screen'.
Matthew wrote:
WTF! This is ridiculous, I can certainly see
that I will certainly NOT be using this std
over the 782 no matter what Nick says the
improvements are.
It's your choice. Don't buy it, don't work more efficiently, and don't
support its continued development. Others have and others will.
Maybe you or others in the industry can work together to put together
something better without charging people for it - you know, so you can pay
your bills. Go for it, give it your best shot. After months of working on
it, fixing bugs, lots of collaboration between programmers, incessant
problem emails (mostly user errors) you must respond to, maybe you will
find
a better, more efficient way of working without asking people to pay for
anything - and *everybody* will be your friend, especially after all the
time and effort you put into it, and nobody will publicize complaints
against you.
Nick
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
Matthew
Lamkin
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 8:49 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant & IPC-7351
Coming quite late into this also...
Having looked on the IPC site for this std, it appears that there is a
document available
(that turns out to be remarkably similar to the front of IPC-SM782A) and
that the footprint dimension info itself is only available from the LP
viewer.
I have just installed the latest version of the LP viewer.
Yes it looks good, has many components in, even SMT electrolytic caps
which
I would find useful.
However, I am unable to print out the dimensions that I see on screen.
I used to be able to do that with the online 782 calculator. :(
OK, fair do's I think, what if I get my employers to purchase the std &
perhaps the next level of the program that will allow me to print it.
So I ring up Dynamix, a UK supplier of IPC stuff.
It would appear that I would be paying £2161.80+vat for a site license for
this.
WTF!
Why has this gone from a £90 std (non members cost) to well over 2 grand?
This is ridiculous, I can certainly see that I will certainly NOT be using
this std over the 782
no matter what Nick says the improvements are.
Matthew Lamkin.
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