And hip huggers!!!
Suz
>
> From: "Jack C. Olson" <[log in to unmask]>
> Date: 2005/05/31 Tue AM 08:24:50 CDT
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant & IPC-7351
>
> People still use PAPER?
>
> How retro...
>
> what's next?
> bell bottoms?
>
> Jack
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Matthew Lamkin <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent by: DesignerCouncil <[log in to unmask]>
> 05/31/2005 02:34 AM
> Please respond to
> "(Designers Council Forum)" <[log in to unmask]>; Please respond to
> Matthew Lamkin <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
> To
> To
> [log in to unmask]
> cc
>
>
>
>
> Subject
> Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant & IPC-7351
>
>
>
>
> Caterpillar: Confidential Green Retain Until: 06/30/2005 Retention
> Category: G90 - General Matters/Administration
>
>
> Wrong Nick.
>
> My post WAS removed and is no longer available.
> The further posts there are slightly less sever & since it was removed.
>
> I still find it most annoying to find that the only way to get to the
> IPC-7351 footprints
> printed out is to purchase an expensive program that is still in
> development & cannot print them out.
>
> As I said... I wont use it because of that.
> I don't want it for free, I just want it at a reasonable price & on paper.
>
>
> >> Hey, just so everyone knows what's going on, I "was" a moderator
> >> on the PCBL forum, having asked if they could put a Cadstar
> >> Because I have complained about the inability to print & the huge
> >> cost of this I have been suspended (basically kicked off!) and my
> >> post removed. PCBL just do not like any complaints about their
> >> baby do they.
>
> Your post was never removed, it's still available online, see link above.
> Complain away.
>
> >> the print feature has not yet been developed for any of the
> >> LP programs And you are at version 3!
>
> Believe it or not, the demand was greater to get the following (even
> greater
> than the print feature since the need is temporarily met by using
> printscreen and/or the LP Librarian)
> - CAD tool outputs
> - Free online calculator
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Matthew
> Lamkin
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 10:40 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant & IPC-7351
>
> I drew the "assumption" from being "told" by the UK supplier that this is
> what I would need.
>
> STOP giving out the usual crap about
> > Maybe you or others in the industry can work together etc.
>
> I never said that I would not pay for the program, what I did say was :
> >OK, fair do's I think, what if I get my employers to purchase the std &
> perhaps the next level of >the program that will allow me to print it.
>
> Even if it was to be paid for, 2K is way over the top for it.
> If you want lots of people to take it up then it has to be cost effective
> &
> this is not.
>
> >the print feature has not yet been developed for any of the LP programs
> And you are at version 3!
> It's a windows program printing is a basic function...
> Thats not encouraging users to use it now, is it.
>
> >and nobody will publicize complaints against you.
> Or you wont let them...
>
> Hey, just so everyone knows what's going on, I "was" a moderator on the
> PCBL
> forum, having asked if they could put a Cadstar section on it too.
> Because I have complained about the inability to print & the huge cost of
> this I have been suspended (basically kicked off!) and my post removed.
>
> PCBL just do not like any complaints about their baby do they.
>
> Disgruntled....
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Nick Ban (PCBL) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 4:05 PM
> To: '(Designers Council Forum)'; Matthew Lamkin
> Subject: RE: [DC] Propaganda Rant & IPC-7351
>
>
> Hi, Matthew.
>
> Matthew wrote:
> However, I am unable to print out the dimensions
> that I see on screen. I used to be able to do
> that with the online 782 calculator. :(
>
> And you will be able to print out the output (via browser) from the free
> online calculator that PCB Libraries will release later on this summer.
>
> Matthew wrote:
> OK, fair do's I think, what if I get my employers
> to purchase the std & perhaps the next level of
> the program that will allow me to print it.
>
> Purchasing the next level won't let you print, either. I'm not sure where
> you drew that assumption from. Anyhow, the print feature has not yet been
> developed for any of the LP programs, purchased or free. The LP Librarian
> ('next level' you are referring to) will let you maintain your library
> documentation.
>
> Matthew wrote:
> Why has this gone from a £90 std (non members
> cost) to well over 2 grand?
>
> Though this has nothing to do with the program not yet having a print
> feature (we're focused on developing outputs for a Expedition and Protel
> now), if you buy a CD standard from IPC and pay for a 'single user' (least
> expensive), you will find that the print function is disabled on the PDF
> and
> you will only be able to print by doing a 'print-screen'.
>
> Matthew wrote:
> WTF! This is ridiculous, I can certainly see
> that I will certainly NOT be using this std
> over the 782 no matter what Nick says the
> improvements are.
>
> It's your choice. Don't buy it, don't work more efficiently, and don't
> support its continued development. Others have and others will.
>
> Maybe you or others in the industry can work together to put together
> something better without charging people for it - you know, so you can pay
> your bills. Go for it, give it your best shot. After months of working on
> it, fixing bugs, lots of collaboration between programmers, incessant
> problem emails (mostly user errors) you must respond to, maybe you will
> find
> a better, more efficient way of working without asking people to pay for
> anything - and *everybody* will be your friend, especially after all the
> time and effort you put into it, and nobody will publicize complaints
> against you.
>
>
> Nick
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
> Matthew
> Lamkin
> Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 8:49 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [DC] Propaganda Rant & IPC-7351
>
> Coming quite late into this also...
>
> Having looked on the IPC site for this std, it appears that there is a
> document available
> (that turns out to be remarkably similar to the front of IPC-SM782A) and
> that the footprint dimension info itself is only available from the LP
> viewer.
>
> I have just installed the latest version of the LP viewer.
>
> Yes it looks good, has many components in, even SMT electrolytic caps
> which
> I would find useful.
>
> However, I am unable to print out the dimensions that I see on screen.
> I used to be able to do that with the online 782 calculator. :(
>
> OK, fair do's I think, what if I get my employers to purchase the std &
> perhaps the next level of the program that will allow me to print it.
>
> So I ring up Dynamix, a UK supplier of IPC stuff.
>
> It would appear that I would be paying £2161.80+vat for a site license for
> this.
>
> WTF!
>
> Why has this gone from a £90 std (non members cost) to well over 2 grand?
> This is ridiculous, I can certainly see that I will certainly NOT be using
> this std over the 782
> no matter what Nick says the improvements are.
>
> Matthew Lamkin.
>
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