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March 2005

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Subject:
From:
Vladimir Igoshev <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Vladimir Igoshev <[log in to unmask]>
Date:
Wed, 16 Mar 2005 19:34:06 -0500
Content-Type:
text/plain
Parts/Attachments:
text/plain (330 lines)
Have you X-sectioned the caps? It's difficult to say what could have gone wrong looking only at optical images.
Regards,
Vladimir
Sent from my Blackberry Wireless 
Vladimir Igoshev, 519-888-7465 ext.5283


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask] <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Wed Mar 16 18:20:53 2005
Subject: Re: [TN] Capacitor Terminal Silver Braze Problem

March 16, 2005

One possible problem may be excessive heat used during the braze process.  Do you have any info on what happens to Ag2.5 solder at elevated temperatures.  For example, would brazing at 710C cause the noted problem?  
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW)<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
  To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]> 
  Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2005 6:55 AM
  Subject: Re: [TN] Capacitor Terminal Silver Braze Problem


  Great, Steve, your new style will make success.

  About cap, seems like what I suspected, kind of HiVoltage filter cap. 
  Even with those fine pics, it's not easy to see what is what.
  From my view, looks like solder fatigue cracking caused by mismatch.
  Some sources regard that too as 'corrosion', kind of 'mechanical corrosion'.
  Grain sliding and it's consequencies....
  A simple drawing would make tele-analysis easier..
  Ingemar Hernefjord
  Ericsson Microwave Systems

  -----Original Message-----
  From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
  Sent: den 15 mars 2005 20:52
  To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>
  Subject: Re: [TN] Capacitor Terminal Silver Braze Problem


  Hi All!

  It's been one them days...too much to do and not enough hands. Plus,
  I'm feeling a bit on the lousy side...hope I'm not getting the flu.

  Anyways, I got Les's pictures up. Go to:

  http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com<http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com/> and look at  "Capacitor Terminal
  Top View, 4 o'clock Position, 8 o'clock Position, and 10 o'clock Position".

  I've also changed my website a bit...a little birdie told me it was getting
  boring...

  Kind regards,

  -Steve Gregory-
  Senior Process Engineer
  LaBarge Incorporated
  Tulsa, Oklahoma
  (918) 459-2285
  (918) 459-2350 FAX


  |---------+---------------------------->
  |         |           - Bogert         |
  |         |           <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>|
  |         |           Sent by: TechNet |
  |         |           <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>|
  |         |                            |
  |         |                            |
  |         |           03/15/2005 04:28 |
  |         |           AM               |
  |         |           Please respond to|
  |         |           TechNet E-Mail   |
  |         |           Forum; Please    |
  |         |           respond to -     |
  |         |           Bogert           |
  |         |                            |
  |---------+---------------------------->
    >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|
    |                                                                                                              |
    |       To:       [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>                                                                              |
    |       cc:                                                                                                    |
    |       Subject:  Re: [TN] Capacitor Terminal Silver Braze Problem                                             |
    >--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------|




  March 15, 2005

  Thanks
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Stephen Gregory<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:Stephen.Gregory@LABARGECOM>>
    To: [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
    Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 9:52 PM
    Subject: Re: [TN] Capacitor Terminal Silver Braze Problem


    Les,

    Send your images directly to me, and I will post them for everyone to
    view...

    Kind regards,

    -Steve Gregory-
    Senior Process Engineer
    LaBarge Incorporated
    Tulsa, Oklahoma
    (918) 459-2285
    (918) 459-2350 FAX



                          - Bogert
                          <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
  To:       [log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>
                          Sent by: TechNet         cc:
                          <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>>>
  Subject:  [TN] Capacitor Terminal Silver Braze Problem


                          03/14/2005 06:12
                          PM
                          Please respond to
                          TechNet E-Mail
                          Forum; Please
                          respond to -
                          Bogert






    March 14, 2005

    Folks, the attached photographs show some type of problem with a silver
  to
    ceramic braze joint.  The joint provides a seal around a capacitor
    terminal.  The manufacturer rejected the terminal due to the noted
    conditions.

    In the photo titled top view, the white area on the outer diameter is a
  90%
    Alumina ceramic.

    Next to the ceramic is the silver braze connection that connects the
    ceramic to 304 stainless steel using Ag 2.5 silver solder (i.e.,
    97.5PbAg2.5).

    In the middle of the top view photo is a copper terminal.

    The other three photos show the top view enlarged in the 8 o'clock, 4
    o'clock and 10 o'clock positions.

    As you can tell from the photographs, the silver braze joint appears
    corroded.  Also, there appears to be poor or non-wetting to the 304 SST,
  or
    otherwise a crack formed.

    We used a knife in the area from the one o'clock position to about the 2
    o'clock position and were able to easily scrape away the top surface of
  the
    braze down to about a 1/64 inch or > depth till we got to solid braze
  area.

    We had an analysis performed that did not show any chlorides, just silver
    and lead.  It could be that the stuff we were able to scrape away is some
    form of lead oxide, not sure.

    I note that the historical QQ-S-571 specification in section 6 indicates
    that Ag2.5 solder is subject to corrosion in a humid environment, as is
    Ag5.5.  However, the QQ spec indicates that Ag1.5, which is used
    interchangeably with Ag2.5, has better shelf life and will not develop a
    black surface deposit.  I don't know if the corrosion for Ag2.5 means
  just
    a black deposit, or if the solder joint will fail due to other type of
    corrosion.  I note that J-STD-006 does not include the same information
  as
    does section 6 of QQ-S-571.

    During our qualification testing, we subjected a capacitor to high
  humidity
    at high temp for an extended period of time with no evidence of
  corrosion.


    Can you folks please answer the following questions?

    1.  What caused the conditions shown in the photographs?  What are the
    photographs showing?

    2.  Would brazing (probably a furnace braze, not sure) at too high or too
    low a temperature cause the condition?

    3.  Will Ag2.5 corrode in a humid environment? If so, what type of
    corrosion, and why can it occur?  Is it a black surface condition?, or
  can
    the corrosion ultimately cause failure of the braze joint?  What is the
    physical science basis for the corrosion?  Why does it only occur for
    certain % of silver content, and not for all % of silver?

    4.  Why doesn't J-STD-006 have the same info as QQ-S-571 regarding
    corrosion of Ag2.5 and Ag5.5 solder?

    5.  Will the corrosion continue?

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