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Subject:
From:
"Brooks,Bill" <[log in to unmask]>
Reply To:
TechNet E-Mail Forum <[log in to unmask]>, Brooks,Bill
Date:
Wed, 22 Dec 2004 16:45:38 -0800
Content-Type:
text/plain
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text/plain (244 lines)
Also there is an interesting Connector at Amphenol's website that claims
good performance up to 40GHz... I just have not seen any 60GHz connectors
yet... If you know of a mfr that makes them I would be interested in seeing
what they look like.


http://drawings.amphenolrf.com/Preliminary/SMP-MSSB-PCT-1.pdf



Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
e-mail:[log in to unmask]
http://www.dtwc.com
http://pcbwizards.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Brooks,Bill [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 3:41 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering

There is a nice write up on transitions at

http://www.ansoft.com/hfworkshop03/Joseph_Tallo_Kyocera.pdf

Notice the way they chose to make the transition through the board instead
of parallel to the board... interesting. I have see this done many times
before but never looked at an ANSOFT analysis of one.

Cheers,

Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
e-mail:[log in to unmask]
http://www.dtwc.com
http://pcbwizards.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Dehoyos, Ramon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 10:49 AM
To: TechNet E-Mail Forum; Brooks,Bill
Subject: RE: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering


        Bill:
        Your idea of having a network at the board for impedance matching in
conjunction with a coax tail with a bend would work as long as the bend is
the same  or very similar bend for all the connections. The network must be
tune able. Perhaps using a semi rigid coax material that has a specific
bend. The bend could be done using a template.
        Regards,
        Ramon




-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Brooks,Bill
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:46 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering


Ingemar,

I have not worked at 60GHz yet... The highest frequency I have worked at is
15Ghz. At 60GHz you are really in need of a waveguide-like connection I
would think... just intuition... What we were able to do at 3 to 6 GHz falls
apart as you get past 15GHz. What type of connector are they using? SSMA?
What substrate materials are being used?

Perhaps a short length of coaxial 'tail' on the back end of the connector
with a bend in it to allow for expansion and contraction and then some sort
of impedance matching network at the board launch site would work...

 I would love to see the packaging of this design... It would be very
enlightening to get a sense of scale too... I would expect 60GHz circuits to
be on some sort of a MMIC or chip... not at the board level... I would think
Duroid materials might still be too lossy at those frequencies.

Sounds like a terrific design challenge... what an opportunity to get into
cutting edge design... I envy you. :)

Best regards,


Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
e-mail:[log in to unmask]
http://www.dtwc.com
http://pcbwizards.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2004 12:04 AM
To: 'TechNet E-Mail Forum'; 'Brooks,Bill'
Subject: RE: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering



Bill,
right about silver ribbon (I'd prefer gold). Theoretically best solution. I
proposed parallel gap welded ribbon with mini S-curve to take movements, but
does not work at 60 GHz range. Feel like don Q when fighting with the
microwave experts, my design-for-reliability proposals are overrun by
we-must-not-distort-the-signal guys...but after the environmental tests I
use to get visits from same guys, now ready to discuss reality...ho-ho

Thanks for your engagement

Ingemar


-----Original Message-----
From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Brooks,Bill
Sent: den 17 december 2004 21:50
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering


Hi Steve,

Very interesting photo, do you have more from different perspectives?
The soldermask 'dam' is a great example of a technique I used at another
company.

The 'coined' or flattened lead from the SMA looks to be pulled away from the
solder joint... I would guess this happened after a thermal excursion, where
the chassis expanded faster than the board and the lead literally pulled the
SMA pin loose from the solder connection.

I can't tell a lot from the photo because of the frosted Plexiglas
appearance surrounding the top of the photo, but I have see this sort of
failure before in similar situations...

The solution to the problem is to strain relief the connection.
We used a silver ribbon and soldered it to the pin and the board allowing it
to flex to take up the CTE mismatch between the aluminum housing and the
Duroid board.

Hope that helps... let me know if I read the problem correctly... it was
just a guess based on what it looks like to me from here... not being able
to see the whole picture...

Best regards,

Bill Brooks - KG6VVP
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D.+, C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
e-mail:[log in to unmask]
http://www.dtwc.com
http://pcbwizards.com


-----Original Message-----
From: Steve Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Friday, December 17, 2004 12:35 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [TN] Wanted: TN's best-on-coax-soldering

Sorry Everyone! My bad, I didn't have the thumbnail linked to the
picture...but it is now. Try this link:

http://www.stevezeva.homestead.com/files/SMA.jpg

Just got in a hurry when I posted the picture. I'm trying to get all my
loose ends tied-up here at work because I'm leaving this weekend for
Christmas vacation.

-Steve Gregory-

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