Hi Again Chris!

I'm not on my high horse...well, I saw him toking on a joint once, but he said he didn't inhale, so I believed him. He's never lied to me yet. 

Anyways...here's a little analogy, or story that kind of reminds me of this whole lead free mess. I think that many of you can relate to this story.

I remember my mom telling me one time when she caught me doing something I wasn't supposed to be doing and tried to use the excuse; "But mom, I was only doing it because my friend Bobby was doing it!" Then she came back at me and said; "So if Bobby jumps off a cliff I suppose you will too! Is that what you're telling me?" I would get this dumb sheepish look and say; "No..."

But it seems not many have learned the good lessons from our moms. We're following right behind Bobby over the edge of that cliff. Some of us have completely forgotten what mom told us.

The fact of the matter is that there hasn't been ONE case of lead contamination of drinking water from landfill leachate. Lead poisoning comes from old lead based paints, and old plumbing from the lead based solders that were used to connect them.

Here's some quotes from the web pages the World Health Organization, and the National Safety Council:

This is from WHO (World Health Organization)"

Exposure to lead through water is generally low in comparison with exposure through air or food. Lead from natural sources is present in tap water to some extent, but analysis of both surface and ground water suggests that lead concentration is fairly low. The main source of lead in drinking water is (old) lead piping and lead-combining solders. Removing old piping is costly and lead continues to dissolve even from old pipes. The amount of lead that may dissolve in water depends on acidity (pH), temperature, water hardness and standing time of the water. Secondary pollution from industry can contaminate water through the effluents produced.

Other sources include use of lead-containing ceramics for cooking, eating or drinking. In some countries, people are exposed to lead after eating food products from cans that contain lead solder in the seams of the cans. Very small children are especially at risk to exposure, for example through the ingestion of paint chips from lead-based paint.

and this from the National Safety Councils "Fact Sheet" on Lead poisoning:

By far the biggest source of concern is the lead paint that is found in much of our nation's older housing. Until 1978, lead paint was commonly used on the interiors and exteriors of our homes. Today, the US Department of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) estimates that about 38 million homes in the US still contain some lead paint. While lead paint that is in intact condition does not pose an immediate concern, lead paint that is allowed to deteriorate creates a lead-based paint hazard. It can contaminate household dust as well as bare soil around the house, where children may play. In either situation, a child who comes into contact with lead-contaminated dust or soil is easily poisoned. All it takes is hand-to-mouth activity, which is perfectly normal for young children to engage in. All it takes is the lead dust equivalent of a single grain of salt for a child to register an elevated blood lead level. 

According to HUD, about 25% of the nation's housing stock -- some 24 million homes -- contains significant lead-based paint hazards, i.e. deteriorating lead paint or lead-contaminated dust. These are the homes producing the vast majority of the childhood lead poisoning cases we see today.

I know you all have heard all of this before, but what I don't understand is why are we are being sheep about this? We're just all following the flock without any of it making any sense...

Off my stoned horse now...

-Steve Gregory-

>Steve.
>
>Calm down and get of your high horse, it wasn't me who commissioned the studies that gave birth to the WEEE & RoHS I'm on your side! And what you say is true. But believe it or not the battery industry is next in line to fall under the EU's wrath of Producer Responsibility Policies, by way of the EU Batteries Directive.
>
>To explain the EU brought in the WEEE & RoHS directives in an effort to cut the fastest growing category of waste, and take the pressure of the ever diminishing number of landfill sites able to take hazardous wastes such as electronics.   
>
>So I hear you ask, a million questions, many of which no one currently knows, what I do know is summarised very nicely at the EU webpage's which I'll let you read at your leisure.... http://europa.eu.int/comm/environment/waste/batteries/index.htm
>
>Basically on 24 November 2004 the European Commission adopted a proposal for a new Battery Directive, which will require the collection and recycling of all batteries placed on the EU market. It aims to prevent spent batteries ending up in incinerators or landfills and to recover the various metals used in batteries. 
>
>So ok your right, batteries are a current problem, but policy restrictions to control treatment are coming, and coming soon.
>
>Yes it would be nice if the lead free alternatives where inert and had no detrimental effects on the environment, but this isn't going to happen.
>
>As you rightly pointed out, is often ironic that evidence arising from reports and studies like Edwin's suggests that the lead-free alternative materials are more toxic that lead, so you may retort and with it being 17:50 GMT, and well past by 'home-time' I shall finish as I did in a previous contribution to the forum.... one thing at a time!
>
>Your thoughts please.
>
>Chris
>
>Christopher Hughes
>Environmental Scientist 
>[log in to unmask] 
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Steve Gregory [mailto:[log in to unmask]] 
>Sent: 07 December 2004 17:18
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: [TN] Lead-free, and not lead-free...
>
>Hi Chris!
>
>I have a question; Why isn't the battery industry pursued with the same vigor as the electronics industry is, to ban their use of lead? After all, their total use of lead dwarfs the electronics industry by many orders of magnitude...and don't say because batteries are always recycled. We all know that isn't true.
>
>Ryan Grant said it best when he said that he has his solder paste vendor color his Lead-free tubes green because it makes you sick that lead-free is touted as environmentally
>friendly...I couldn't agree more.
>
>ANYBODY, I mean ANYBODY that believes the environment is going to better off once the electronics industry bans the use of lead...well, all I can say is; I have some ocean-front property in Kansas I'd like to sell you...
>
>-Steve Gregory-
>
>>OK so you guys are going to have major issues if and when you change over to lead free operations. Which we can sympathize with, but the longer you leave it the more hurdles you will encounter.
>>
>>I have been tracking the development of market and legislative drivers surrounding the electronics industry for the past three years, so I know a fair bit about the ways out of compliance with lead-free etc.
>>
>>I'll let you all in on a big secret, unless your products are exempt there are not ways out!
>>
>>The bottom line is that legislative drivers such as the WEEE & RoHS pose the biggest ever threat to the electronics industry because their no escape, and the domino effect has already started (Japanese corporate polices, California & Maine Consumer products targeted etc).
>>
>>And YES it's only going to get worse.
>>
>>FACT: As we move towards key dates the value of leaded materials used in electronic & electrical equipment will increase, and will much harder to obtain.
>>
>>FACT: If your refuse to go 'lead-free' (RoHS compliant) for products put on the EU market after July 2006, your products could be banned from sale across the EU.
>>
>>Start taking the drive to reduce toxic material inclusion in the electronics industry seriously, and make sure the resources are in place to ensure you remain competitive.
>>
>>This is not simply an issue of greening the electronics supply chain, it is a major business threat to everybody in the supply chain to the final products put on sale, both business to householder, and business to business.
>>
>>FALSE: Only consumer products will be affected by the legislative driver to switch over to 'lead-free'. 
>>
>>I welcome all thoughts and additional suggestions.
>>
>>Chris
>>
>>Christopher Hughes
>>Environmental Scientist
>>[log in to unmask]
>>
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: Ingemar Hernefjord (KC/EMW) [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>>Sent: 07 December 2004 07:57
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [TN] Lead-free, and not lead-free...
>>
>>Mike,
>>
>>blessed be the innocent, that have not yet seen the dark side..
>>
>>Inge
>>
>>PS. we are still unaware, have seen no problems until this day...will the heaven suddenly
>>fall upon our heads (Majestix of Gallia)
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Mike Fenner
>>Sent: den 6 december 2004 14:57
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: [TN] Lead-free, and not lead-free...
>>
>>
>>You will need excellent controls, preferably even a separate building ☺. Customer feedback is that trying to run two lines adjacently, usually in the interim to full change over can be a hair loosing experience, with frequent cross over, and do not wish it on others. A single bar of solder can tip your wave pot over the 0.1% Pb level, putting leaded paste on the unleaded line can be undetectable [unless you have a handy spectrometer], putting leaded components on the unleaded line may damage them thermally and so on.
>>
>>Regards
>>
>>Mike Fenner
>>Indium Corporation
>>
>>T: + 44 1908 580 400
>>M: + 44 7810 526 317
>>F: + 44 1908 580 411
>>E: [log in to unmask]
>>W: www.indium.com
>>Pb-free: www.Pb-Free.com
>>
>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>From: TechNet [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Steve Gregory
>>Sent: Sunday, December 05, 2004 1:21 AM
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: [TN] Lead-free, and not lead-free...
>>
>>
>>Hi All!
>>
>>I've got a problem that I've been worrying about all weekend. It may come  to
>>pass that we will be building both lead-free, and standard 63/37
>>stuff...whoa is me.
>>
>>I'm interested in stories from those that have done that...what the hell  did
>>you do?
>>
>>Is this something that can be done? It probably can, but me, being the
>>pessimistic sort, thinks that you're just asking for trouble when you try to mix
>>the two...
>>
>>-Steve Gregory
>
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