To all you people that pooh pooh CID:
Yes, there are companies that do not value it or IPC, In my experience
they are the ones who just do not understand the value of DFM & DFT
either, they design a board, then it comes back for redesign because the
assy needs rework because of poor design practices, sometimes it does
not even make it through fab, then it is redesigned again for thermal
reasons or test, or ....
I was at a CAD annual meeting where they gave T-shirts that said
"Isolation is not an option" Although they were meaning it in a
different context. how true!
I have worked with many people who call themselves pcb designers, in
fact they are CAD technicians, often this is not their fault, it is
their company or manager who just does not see the big picture. They
will not value CID, but the fact is, unless you are desperate for a job,
you really do not want to work for them.
CID does not gaurantee the person is a designer, but it does indicate
they understand there is more to pcb design than connecting the dots.
-----Original Message-----
From: DesignerCouncil [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
James Jackson
Sent: Wednesday, June 30, 2004 4:49 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [DC] C.I.D.Certification Exam
Bill,
Please seek my reply below... interspersed within your comments...
> Things have been changing, James...
>
> I want you to notice, The most vociferous responses to my comments are
from
> NON-CID designers. Perhaps they are trying very hard to justify why
> they aren't stepping up to the challenge...
I don't think this is it at all. You are already getting responses along
the lines of... "My company refuses to pay for my certification..." This
indicates to ME that there are STILL companies that do NOT accept the
IPC or their C.I.D. certifications. <shrug>
> Regardless of whether or not the CID is and exact 'equivalent' to a
> PE, it serves the purpose for designers, and all PCB designers have
> had very few good sources for well documented design education or any
> measure of that
in
> degree or certificate form from any college or training facility... we
> gleaned what we could from the Mil specs, and Bishop graphics - and
> PCB magazine. I would like to see the CID approach the equivalent of a
> PE... with a real college level study course.
RE: documentation...
From my experience... much of the initial IPC documentation was almost a
direct re-write of NASA or Mil-Spec documents. Or perhaps the military
'ripped off' the IPC. (Yeah, right.)
> You prove my point though, the testing they were doing at the facility
where
> you were applying is and was a standard way of screening candidates.
> This
is
> changing... I have seen many job requirements in the last few years
> that
had
> a request for the CID as a 'plus' to any designer's qualifications...
> and
as
> 'preferred' in a few instances. It is known now... it is respected
> now... (albeit not by certain old fossil designers that don't want to
> be a part
of
> ANY organization, except maybe the AARP... ) and it IS the future of
> this profession.
RE: the company that I am referring to - is STILL doing things their
way. In fact - during the 2 or 3 days of instruction prior to the CID
exam, there were 'experts' in the class that were extolling the benefits
of how they do things.
The instructor handled them very well by saying "If you want to pass the
test, you will answer it this way..."
There were STILL fellas that failed the exam.
> Designers that want to advance their careers need education, training,
> and certification to tackle the design challenges ahead. That's why
> you see so many designers doing the workshops and taking the tests.
> That's the future... especially for those that do not want to be left
> behind.
>
> Not all designers will get it... not all designers feel they need
> it...
but
> most of those designers will be retired in the next 10 years. The rest
> of
us
> will be certified. What about the ones who are in their 20's and 30's?
They
> are going to be dealing with the next generation boards that will no
> doubt make what we are doing today look like child's play.
>
> The IPC DC and its chapter organizations are building the roads that
> those designers will follow to get there. Is there a chapter in your
> area? If
not,
> look into starting one. The IPC DC has guidelines on how to set up a
chapter
> on-line and willing helpers to assist you in getting it going. You can
make
> a difference in your area.
RE: IPC DC chapters -
Don't preach to ME about this. I tried - in vain - to establish one here
in San Antonio, TX a few years ago.
Now... this city has well near 100 P.C. Designers all about the city and
neighboring small towns.
Out of those potential 100 members, all that could find the 'time' to
attend once a month were a handful... like 10 to 12.
I told the group that if we couldn't get the numbers up to over 20
within 6 months or so, I was gonna walk away from that idea... and did
so - as the numbers went from 10 to 12 to less than 6 within a few
months.
Yes... we got the information packet from the IPC on how to set up the
local chapter... sparse information, and if I hadn't had experience with
starting user groups prior to this, I - and the others who helped me -
would have been pretty much lost.
> Guys like the ones who are knocking the certification program should
> be in here helping to make it better, adding content to the education
> materials and making sure the next generation of board designers has
> the collective benefit of the knowledge that we all have collected of
> the past 50 years.
>
> Critics are everywhere... what's needed are volunteers to help make it
> better. Are you helping at the DC local chapter level? Are you one of
> the few who are pitching in to make sure your knowledge doesn't
> disappear with this generation? I know and admire all of the
> volunteers who are making it happen in the face of all the obstacles.
> I recommend it highly to any
other
> designer who would like to make a difference too. Pitch in and help.
> We
need
> you.
As for volunteering and helping out... I tried that route also. I helped
initially with proof-reading one of the IPC specs - finding many
mistakes and correcting them. I then got the latest IPC-D-356B spec, and
it TOO is woefully lacking in being considered 'good documentation' as
you call it. I started making corrections and sending them in to the
committee chairman - who then got irritated with me and pretty much blew
me off. It appears that they don't want to make changes to the
documentation now, as it might mean that they have to re-write it to
correct it and make callouts refer to the correct figures, etc. It's
pretty sad documentation, really. Difficult to follow, and contradicts
itself in many places.
Personally, what _I_ would like to see - is more support of the PCB
Trade journals. Their article content has dwindled in the recent years.
Articles that address 'basics' for those new designers that you talk
about would be good. Articles like...
How to name Pads in PCB.
How to set up a Library - and naming conventions for Patterns -
Components - etc. How to Draw Schematics - to make sense - etc. How to
estimate time for doing layouts (it _can_ be done)
There are a lot of things that I do, that I learned waaaay back that I
take for granted. Things like this should be addressed in national
magazines that most if not all designers have access to.
> P.S. I am planning on taking the CID+ exam in the near future, too.
>
> Best regards,
>
>
> Bill Brooks
> PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
> Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510 http://pcbwizards.com
>
Of course... your experiences may vary.
Regards,
James Jackson
Oztronics
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using
LISTSERV 1.8d To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with
following text in the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF
DesignerCouncil. To set a vacation stop for delivery of DesignerCouncil
send: SET DesignerCouncil NOMAIL Search previous postings at:
www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives Please
visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for
additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
------------------------------------------------------------------------
---------
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil.
To set a vacation stop for delivery of DesignerCouncil send: SET DesignerCouncil NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
