Good read.....
Paying for something should always be measured by "What do I get for what I
pay", more appropriately deemed as VALUE....
I don't mind paying, if I feel I get something for it...
At $50 USD I don't think anyone can complain....
For us PCB designers, there really isn't any other grassroots organization
other than IPC, am I correct ? For us, it is the pinnacle.....
Regards
TDK
-----Original Message-----
From: Brooks,Bill [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 4:27 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [DC] FW: "cannot afford to pay for knowledge..."
-----Original Message-----
From: Brooks,Bill
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 3:23 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: "cannot afford to pay for knowledge..."
Jim...
Let's take a step back a moment... your comment resonates with me...
And your point of view is not uncommon... we all have had to scratch out a
job from an opportunity given us by someone who had enough faith in our
ability to give us the chance to learn and deal with the concepts and
parameters needed to perform this design task called "PCB design".
Let me guess, statistically, you are over 40 and have been designing boards
for 20 years or more. That's true of 90 percent of the board designers out
there. That means that you more than likely had to work with the mil-std-275
and mil-p-13949 and dod-std-100 if you were pushing a drafting pencil or
using an xacto-blade and a light table anytime in your career.
Those specs were developed in a very similar manner to the IPC specs. In
fact Mil-STD-275 was commissioned by the military and IPC was the
organization that did the job for them. IPC is a non-profit standards
organization. They are made up of volunteers from industry, members who
contribute their free time to the betterment of the industry as a whole.
Without the IPC you would not have that "0.0002 in. per volt" reference to
figure out your designs. You would have to resort to experimentation and the
R&D costs associated with it. Those costs are not trivial as you can
probably imagine.
I share your view of the 'cost ' of purchasing specs. Believe me... I used
to really get fumed over the cost associated with the purchase of any specs.
I felt it was unfair and 'railed against the machine' of the IPC for
extorting the vast millions that they must be making off the measly thin
paper documents that anyone could copy at Kinko's Copy store for about 2
bucks.
It's funny how things can change... I had to buy a book recently that
covered the specs for Screws and Fasteners... Published and authored by the
Industrial Fasteners Institute in 1988. Inside the cover on the
Acknowledgements page, it lists all of those who contributed to the creation
of the Fasteners Standard Book and it chronicles a long list of Members of
different organizations that made the book possible. ASTM, SAE, ASME, the
Standards committee, several individuals that organized, managed and edited
the document, and Richard B. Belford, who contributed his knowledge of 35
years in the industry to make the book.
I valued the information in that book and paid 100 dollars for it, (not my
employer). Some percentage of that money I paid will go to the publisher,
and some of it goes back to the organization that helped make it possible to
publish. I can benefit from their passed on knowledge, every time I design
something that requires my referencing and incorporating it into my work. So
I am capitalizing on their successes in research and development and their
efforts to get that information out to me and other designers like me.
If you look at the whole picture, the cost of the book is very small by
comparison and a very good investment in my future. In fact, if I am an
independent businessman, and consulting, I can take the cost of that book
off my taxes as an educational business expense. So the cost to me is really
nothing if you think about it.
It has taken me some time to realize, but I think I get it now, that the
investment in specs to make my work more standardized is an investment in my
earning ability and competence as a designer... And I am willing to forgo a
few hamburgers and milkshakes a week to invest in myself. I benefit myself
by making that effort. And I invest in my career.
IPC can't make the all the information available to us all for free, they
wouldn't be able to fund their current R&D efforts to make the next specs
that are currently under development... They would fall apart as an
organization and benefit no body.
Granted, they CAN and DO make some of the specs available to PCB designers
at a discount, IF they become Designers Council members. That's all part of
the deal... as a member you will be exposed to opportunities to advance your
career, and educate yourself about parts of the industry that can benefit
you and your company, they might even ask you to help out, or contribute
something of your time in order to help others. That's all part of paying it
forward... and passing the favor on.
The DC offers a 50% off discount on some very KEY specs that you and I and
other Designers need to do our jobs well. Member designers, like myself and
others, have lobbied for those discounts to help our fellow designers to get
access to those specs. Why not check it out yourself and see if I am blowing
smoke... http://www.ipcdesignerscouncil.org/
GO to the website and check out the offers for Designers Council members.
http://www.ipcdesignerscouncil.org/DCmembership/DiscDocs4DCMembers.pdf
You can essentially become a member for FREE. All you have to do is pay 50
dollars for a yearly membership and they give you a coupon back for 50
dollars... to spend on the IPC specs you need anyway... Along with the 50%
off that members get it adds up to a great deal of savings... Then take
them off your itemized business expenses at the end of the year a you
basically get them for FREE too!
How can you beat that?
I use my copies of the specs all the time. And I continue to invest in my
career by attending classes and seminars, and purchasing books and materials
needed to do my job. I recommend that course of action highly for any
designer that wants to be able to stay employed in this market. Education is
the key... and all you have to do is reach out and make the effort to invest
in yourself.
The IPC is not being run by 'Darth Vader' or the 'Evil Empire'...
WE, the designers who are contributing to the industry, are helping to steer
it, and advise it, and mold the policies that make it what it will become...
You can be a part of that too.
I can't encourage you enough, get involved in the Designers council and help
us make a difference. It's your career that stands to gain... who best to
see it through but you! Reach out and make that investment in yourself.
Best Regards,
Bill Brooks
PCB Design Engineer , C.I.D., C.I.I.
Tel: (760)597-1500 Ext 3772 Fax: (760)597-1510
http://pcbwizards.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Jim Grasty [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
Sent: Thursday, July 22, 2004 1:28 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: [pcdlist] Re: Thanks
Okay, now I am an even bigger screw up than anyone knew before. You should
always be okay with the 0.0020"/volt spacing. The 0.00012"/volt is for
coated designs. My point was (that I didn't make too well) that I've always
used 0.00012"/volt, and never had any problems. Sorry for the confusion. My
"of course..." was to be talking about paying the IPC for what should be
basic scientific knowledge. I'm sure that Jack Olson saw the chart, that he
scammed, for the first time in an ancient Bishop Graphics Catalog. Many of
us (ie. independent consultants) cannot afford to pay for knowledge that is
hoarded by bureaucrats that don't actually work for a living. We are looking
at "outsourcing" to Southeast Asia and India that interfere with our ability
to raise families. I can't retire- I have to work until I die. Please, when
we have a question, just give us the answer, not the relevant IPC
Section/Paragrap/Line Item. Good for you, you have a job with medical
insurance. Hurray! We just want to know how better to do our jobs so that we
can get people to pay us money in order to survive...
Best, J.G.
>Doug,
> I have used 0.00012" per volt forever, and never had a design fail UL (or,
>as far as I know, kill someone). The 0.0020"/volt "coated" has always
>bothered me. Coated with solder mask, potting, vacuum military conformal
>($$$) crap? So I just use the 0.00012"/volt, and that has been good... Of
>course, if you want UL approval, you should hire the right law firm that
>specializes in that certification- it's a slam dunk whatever design rules
>you follow if you have the money. If it's your own personal safety that
>you're concerned for (or even people that you don't know but still care
>about), use the 0.00012"/volt rule. Watch out for metal leads bent around
in
>the air, exposed PCB vias, and "around the board edge" dimensions, then POT
>the WHOLE THING and cross your fingers. Most SMD devices rated for a
>particular (high) voltage do not pass the requirement (with their required
>pad pattern)- put a hole/slot in the PCB to help... There is some very
>interesting stuff on the internet about high voltage phenomenon. Very high
>voltage is just as magic as analog designs that work/don't work depending
on
>where you put your finger... Of course
>
>Best, J.G.
>
>>Thanks.
>>
>>Doug
>>
>>To unsubscribe from the pcdlist, send an e-mail to
>[log in to unmask] with "unsubscribe" in the subject field.
>>
>>If you have any questions or problems, contact [log in to unmask]
>
>To unsubscribe from the pcdlist, send an e-mail to
[log in to unmask] with "unsubscribe" in the subject field.
>
>If you have any questions or problems, contact [log in to unmask]
To unsubscribe from the pcdlist, send an e-mail to
[log in to unmask] with "unsubscribe" in the subject field.
If you have any questions or problems, contact [log in to unmask]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV
1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil.
To set a vacation stop for delivery of DesignerCouncil send: SET
DesignerCouncil NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases >
E-mail Archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16
for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or
847-509-9700 ext.5315
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DesignerCouncil Mail List provided as a free service by IPC using LISTSERV 1.8d
To unsubscribe, send a message to [log in to unmask] with following text in
the BODY (NOT the subject field): SIGNOFF DesignerCouncil.
To set a vacation stop for delivery of DesignerCouncil send: SET DesignerCouncil NOMAIL
Search previous postings at: www.ipc.org > On-Line Resources & Databases > E-mail Archives
Please visit IPC web site http://www.ipc.org/contentpage.asp?Pageid=4.3.16 for additional information, or contact Keach Sasamori at [log in to unmask] or 847-509-9700 ext.5315
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------
|
